Ever dreamed of writing a book or want to share your story and ideas? If so, this episode is for you. Lily welcomes Richelle Fredson, her incredible book proposal coach, on the show. Without Richelle, Thank You, More Please would still be a dream! We’re diving deep into main character energy and how to bring it to your writing and publishing journey. We’re talking about what it takes to get published, the importance of sharing your story, and how to boldly step into the world with your unique voice.

For nearly 20 years, Richelle has been a powerhouse in the book publishing industry. Known as the “six-figure book coach,” she’s worn many hats: publishing guide, guest teacher, and marketing strategist for bestselling authors. Now, she’s here to help aspiring authors develop standout book concepts, killer book proposals, and vibrant online communities. Get ready to embrace your main character energy and share your story with the world, even if you don’t think you’re ready yet.

We get into:

• Conquering the anxiety of “shooting your shot”

• Flipping the script on imposter syndrome: embracing bold, messy action

• Richelle’s take: “Who gets to write a book and who gets published?”

• Diving in: “You can start before you think you’re ready”

• The real talk on getting a book published

• The book proposal: your golden ticket to traditional publishing and ultimate self-advocacy

• Overcoming comparison and self-doubt to start telling your story

Links:
Richelle’s website
Richelle’s podcast Bound + Determined
Lily on Richelle’s podcast

You can pick up your copy of Thank You, More Please where all books are sold right now, and sign up for our book club at datebrazen.com/book!

Show transcript:

[00:00:00] Lily: Hey, I’m Lily Womble, former top matchmaker and founder of Date Brazen. After setting up hundreds, I realized that with coaching, women could match themselves better than anyone else ever could. With my unconventional feminist approach, I’ve helped women around the world build courageous and self trust filled love lives.

[00:00:20] And now I’m here to support you. Get ready because I’m about to show you the exact steps you need to attract a soul quenching partnership and feel amazing about yourself along the way. This is the Date Brazen Podcast. Hello, gorgeous friends. Welcome to another episode of the date brazen podcast. I’m so glad that you’re here today.

[00:00:41] I have a guest on who I have been dreaming of having on the podcast for literal years because I knew that her being on the podcast would signal that Dreams are coming true. So today’s guest is Rochelle Fredson, who is a book publishing coach and [00:01:00] consultant working with aspiring and published authors to create impactful book concepts and competitive book proposals.

[00:01:06] She is the book proposal coach who coached me through like creating my 90 page proposal that got me an incredible agent and book deal. And, uh, like, What I wanted why I wanted her on is because I know so many of you listening have dreams of sharing your story in some way or even starting a business.

[00:01:26] Maybe you don’t think of writing a book, but you have a business on your heart or you have something that you want to create with your main character energy and it feels so far away. So that’s why I wanted to bring Rochelle on to talk about how to make main character energy moves with your story and your dreams.

[00:01:44] Specifically, if you want to write a book, uh, so many of Rochelle’s clients go on to receive impressive offers from their dream publishers. Her recent clients include Farnoosh Chirabi, Chrissy King, Terry Cole, Jen Winston, Vanessa Marin and many more of [00:02:00] that list. There are so many change makers and I’m just obsessed.

[00:02:04] Rochelle has launched over a thousand books in her career. And serves as a launch strategist for bestselling authors and thought leaders. Formerly Rochelle was the director of publicity and book bar marketing for Hay House, also also serving in acquisitions. So she like knows all of the things she’s the host of the bound and determined podcast where she interviews industry experts and authors, and she’s the founder of the book proposal blueprint program.

[00:02:27] Hey, Rochelle.

[00:02:28] Richelle: It’s time to add your name to that list of wonderful, powerful change makers.

[00:02:33] Lily: Look,

[00:02:33] Richelle: thank

[00:02:34] Lily: you. And, uh, I was going to add my own name in the, in the, just on the fly, but I was like, no, it’s fine. Not the book isn’t out yet. As the, as we record this, this episode will come out in July. Oh my God. Um, uh, so the book at this point is already out.

[00:02:50] So thank you. More plays is out in the world and you helped me make it happen. My friend.

[00:02:56] Richelle: I’m so honored to be here. And I am so infinitely proud of [00:03:00] you. As you were introducing me, I was wiping my eyes, not only for seasonal allergies, but because I get weepy about your process and how far you’ve come. And to be here in this moment and celebrate this huge, huge win is very meaningful.

[00:03:15] For me as well.

[00:03:17] Lily: Thank you. And I know that listeners, you’ve been hearing me talk about this book and celebrate this book since January. Um, so thank you for celebrating with me. It feels like it’s literally a five or six year dream come true. And I want to, you know, making it relatable for the listeners specifically.

[00:03:36] I want to talk about when we first met in 2019, what it was like you had just started your business after leaving Hay House after 15 years, right? And I had just started working with a business coach who is a dear, dear person, Alison Davis, [00:04:00] And she had an event where she was like, my friend is a, is a book publishing expert and she’s hosting it.

[00:04:06] Like we’re doing an event like Lily, you should come. You want to write a book. Right. I was like, that’s a secret. Like, I don’t know. Yeah. I want to write a book. So take me through like your main character energy in starting this business and what led you to want to help people build book proposals like this.

[00:04:24] Richelle: I am. Always welcoming evolution. Like I don’t like to stay stuck without learning or challenging myself for any long period of time. And when someone hears, gosh, you spent 15 years at the same company, you don’t hear that that often anymore. But what my evolution was within that publisher was just a really beautiful learning curve of trying on all these different hats.

[00:04:51] So starting on the PR side and getting into digital marketing and then adding to those two things acquisitions and being able to meet with [00:05:00] agents and talent and and see their visions and understand what would be good investments for us. For then my team on the back end to launch it out into the world gave me this really unique lens of sitting in all these seats over 15 years and going, God, I really, I really love watching people make their dreams come true.

[00:05:20] And then watching the impact and the readers and the fans. Fans rise up to meet them. Some of my favorite moments over the years were standing at events with authors and having people come up and go, Oh my God, you changed my life. And there’s just nothing more beautiful to witness. So when I had my son in 2018, I was like, okay, we’re reevaluating time, right?

[00:05:42] You know, time feels very precious. My hours in the day feel shorter. I am sleep deprived and also don’t want to miss these amazing moments, you know, in, in his life and these snuggle opportunities. And so when I thought about starting my own [00:06:00] business, it was freaking scary and talk about stepping in and main character energy.

[00:06:04] I. was lucky enough to have people around me who were cheering me on and saying, why not you? And, and going, yeah, trust, trust what, you know, and take this leap.

[00:06:17] Lily: What, what’s coming to mind is related to the main character energy of it all and the dating of it all is the concept of shooting your shot and the thoughts about ourselves that, that generally get in the way of shooting our shot.

[00:06:32] What were some of the fear, Thoughts that you were moving through as you started your own business and like started launching it into the world. Yeah, I mean, money

[00:06:45] Richelle: first and foremost, right? Like, sure, sure. Yeah. Like needed some and, you know, new baby. And am I crazy to let go of my medical insurance and like all these things like the 401k match and all these, [00:07:00] you know, amazing parts of being in a corporate career.

[00:07:03] I had my family’s support and blessing and my husband even changed his role at, at his job to accommodate this big step for me. And it was just, it was, I had all these signs pointing to yes. And I think the biggest thing was trusting that I could do it. And I think when I, you know, at that time starting something so new and going out on my own, I had spent so many years behind the scenes building other people’s careers.

[00:07:30] Lily: And now

[00:07:31] Richelle: I needed to have faith and confidence and stepping out and being seen and being in front, which was a very new feeling for me.

[00:07:39] Lily: Oh my God, this is so good because I think for all those listening, no matter if you want to write a book or not, there is a, like a push pull between like, okay, I have support.

[00:07:51] I’m supporting all these people. I’m like, I’m caregiving for my, a parent or I’m like my, I’m the friend in my friend group that everybody goes to for support or advice. [00:08:00] Or I’m the one who is holding, you know, I’m the mom who’s holding it all together or like whatever it is. There’s, there is this moment that I hear you describing of like, am I going to step onto the stage?

[00:08:15] Am I going to step onto a bigger stage and be seen as the person instead of being a supporting role in other people’s careers? And the imposter syndrome

[00:08:23] Richelle: is, you know, it’s always, I think it’s very real. I also think we give it too much credit, you know, what do you mean? So a dear friend of mine, Terry, who I think you know, has just the best way of describing imposter syndrome.

[00:08:37] She’s like, there’s nobody that’s immune because all that means is you haven’t done something yet. Like, why would you be expected to know how to do everything with perfection when it’s when you haven’t tried it yet? So it’s like, we’re perfect. Putting up this roadblock and leaning into the fear that says, well, who am I to do this?

[00:08:53] I don’t know what I’m doing. I’m going to be found out. Well, that’s what everyone feels when they start something new. So all it is is [00:09:00] this acknowledgement that like, Hey, I don’t know what I’m doing and I’m going to figure it out along the way and I may stumble and that’s okay. That’s the process of learning something new.

[00:09:10] So I think it’s kind of shifting that perspective to going, okay, it’s a little uncomfy, but if I don’t do it, I have made zero progress. And if I do it and just let it be messy, like I’m a big fan of letting things be messy,

[00:09:23] Lily: let

[00:09:23] Richelle: it be messy and figure it out as you go. And that’s how you get better.

[00:09:27] Lily: Mm hmm.

[00:09:28] Mm hmm. I want to touch on this idea of who gets to write a book and who gets to be published because you work with authors across the spectrum of self, people who decide to be self published. And I came on your podcast and, uh, recently as this recording is airing, it was a few months ago. It was a really vulnerable episode.

[00:09:53] We talked about my book journey and, um, how to, how I ran a book. business and wrote a book at the same time. Um, if [00:10:00] anybody’s interested in that, it’s the Bound and Determined podcast. Um, and we can link it in that episode in the show notes. I think, so what you empower people, you give people power to decide which lane they want to pursue in regards to getting their book in the world.

[00:10:18] And so you help people discern, is it self publishing that is the best course of action for me? Is it hybrid publishing, which is a mix of, You know, makes a little traditional little self, uh, little self both together in a soup. And then do I want to be, or do I want to be traditionally published? Yeah.

[00:10:34] I’ll speak for myself. I, when we first met was like, I have this desire to write a book, but who am I to write a book? I’m not a celebrity yet. I did, you know, as I’ve shared many times, I’ve always felt like, thought that I would be on Oprah’s stage, but didn’t know how or what that would look like. But I’ve always had this, like, I wanted to be a performer.

[00:10:55] Like it wasn’t a struggle for me to get up, want to be on a bigger stage. But, [00:11:00] and I did have this, like, Is it, why is this for me? I’m not important enough. I don’t have a big enough story. I don’t have enough to say. I don’t have, like, all these thoughts came about. And I would imagine the people that come to you also struggle with that too, of like, who am I to do this?

[00:11:20] And so I wonder from your perspective, like, who gets to write a book? And who, who should write a book?

[00:11:26] Richelle: Yeah. I mean, Look, if you have a story that you want to share and you have work that you’re doing in the world that you want to share with other people, like I’m not going to be the one to decide you shouldn’t write a book.

[00:11:37] Like if you want to write a book and it’s on your heart, write the book, how it comes to market is a little bit more of the, the. The big open question, right? Because in traditional publishing, there’s a lot of factors of getting a deal and being attractive to publishers and being a good investment. You know, it’s sort of like being on shark tank, right?

[00:11:55] You’re, you’re pitching yourself and your idea and you’re asking for investors in your project. Like it’s a [00:12:00] for profit business. Okay. Yes. But there are beautiful, beautiful books that get published every day through self publishing through hybrid publishing people that go through the book process to find.

[00:12:12] Value and to realize how important they are in the world and what they know, I mean, I get to see this, this incredible sort of transformation and people as they move through the book process of going, Oh, my God, like, I really see what I bring to people. I really see how I make. The world, a better place, or my relationships, a better place, or how I’ve overcome something really hard.

[00:12:36] And I see the value in sharing that story with other people. So

[00:12:40] Lily: if

[00:12:40] Richelle: you want to write a book, write a book. If you want to traditionally publish, there’s strategy. And that’s where my seat is, is, is matching that creative drive, the what’s on the heart with the strategy that it takes to get a traditional publisher or a hybrid publisher.

[00:12:59] So [00:13:00] I, I toggle between those hats. When I coach people, a lot of it is, is emotional work. And then a lot of it is tactical and strategy. Um, but if you want to write a book, write a book, but understanding that traditional publishers are looking for something that’s long term marketable.

[00:13:15] Lily: Uh, I mean that the journey from when we first met in 20, 19 to now is pretty, pretty remarkable in that I think when we met, there was no, beside, besides like an inkling of an idea and some IP that I had created and experience, which isn’t nothing like all of that is definitely something.

[00:13:38] There wasn’t the, I didn’t yet have the like markers, quote unquote. To get published, meaning to get traditionally published, you do need to have certain like indicators for like shark, like, like Rochelle saying was shark tank. Like, you got to come in with a lot of your pieces figured out the marketing pieces.

[00:13:57] You got to have a platform that you’re showing up at [00:14:00] consistently and teaching from. You got to have a certain number of people on each of those platforms. It is really yeah. important for me to imbue to all of you listening that you can start before you think you’re ready. Yeah. If you have a dream, because back in 2019, did not have any of the things that would have led to like, you know, I think that that was so remarkable that you believed in me and you carry that lantern for so many other authors or aspiring authors.

[00:14:28] So what do you say to people about starting before you’re ready or about like starting before you have the numbers, quote unquote, uh, Yeah. You know, get a deal.

[00:14:37] Richelle: Yeah. I think it’s important because I think all of that building and growth is both going to enhance the book. And also you get to feed what you’re learning about what you want to write and how you want to frame it back on to your platform or back into your audience.

[00:14:51] And I think that, like, that’s really important. That the boats of the tides, whatever the phrases will rise together. I’m really a firm believer that both things can be happening at the same time. [00:15:00] My biggest piece of advice in those situations is to not put sort of a self imposed deadline on yourself of when you need this book to happen, because there are so much out of your control.

[00:15:11] Let the build happen. Let the book ideation happen, work with a thought partner to sort of expedite some of that. But you have to begin before you’re ready. Cause this is a long road. It’s not a quick journey to get here, but I do want to sort of call you out on something you just said. Cause you said you didn’t have the pieces together, but what you had lovingly calling you in what you had was.

[00:15:39] Oh, and it completely unique to me way of talking about dating and finding love a way that was really empowering. And I was married at the time, of course, but I had been through my fair share of dating. And I was like, you are so embodied in the way that you talk about [00:16:00] this. You are not just pitching a random idea.

[00:16:02] You are full of it. Fiercely committed to what you are teaching and it was palpable and it’s why you stood out to me. It’s why you’ve been one of the, I think I can count on one hand, the number of clients in my career that I’ve chased. And I, I, I kept chasing you cause I knew you were going to be ready at some point.

[00:16:19] You just were fully, fully embodied and in full belief that what you had to say was going to make a difference.

[00:16:28] Lily: Yeah.

[00:16:28] Richelle: And so I think that’s, That’s a lesson for people to, when you figure out what your lane is, immerse in it, learn it from every angle, be really a, just a leader of it. Um, because when you get on the page or when you get on in conversation with agents and publishers, them feeling that from you is half the sale.

[00:16:49] Lily: So good. Well, thank you for that, Rochelle. I receive it and I do think that, you know, talking about investing money in your dreams Mm-Hmm. You know, for, for my clients, [00:17:00] it’s the dream of like, what if I could really feel powerful in my dating life, attract the love of my life, have more fun in my dating life, be joyful like that dream is worth investing in.

[00:17:15] Yeah. If you feel aligned with. the approach of a, of a coach like me. When I found you, I didn’t have a lot of money at all. I mean, I think that, um, I, I’ve, I, I’ve shared some on the podcast that I’ve financially struggled, um, a lot in my, um, you know, twenties, early thirties and working with you. So we met in 2019.

[00:17:40] 2021 January, I believe is when we started our work together in book proposal blueprint, which we’ll talk about in a moment of like the nuts and bolts of like, how do you do this? We’ll get into that. I did not, it did not make financial quote sense for me to invest at the time. What was a lot of [00:18:00] money for me into this dream.

[00:18:02] And I remember having a conversation with Chris, who at the time is my boyfriend. Now my husband, we weren’t engaged yet. Maybe, I don’t know, question mark, but he was like, Oh, you want to do that? Okay. Well, okay. Okay. You want to write a book proposal? Don’t how the thing before the book, the thing before the book.

[00:18:20] And like, and, and then how long will it take after that? And the answer is like, I don’t know how long it’ll take. All you have to do is show up and break.

[00:18:28] Richelle: It’s hard to like give ROI to that part of the process. You, you have, there’s like a little bit of faith there.

[00:18:34] Lily: Absolutely. Well, to me, when I say to folks with any investment decision, it needs to be a heart pull a yes in your body.

[00:18:43] That’s what I felt like when I was invited when I was finally ready to take the leap because there was no like perfectly ready. There was the doing it messy. There was the, you know, there was no it. You Perfect moment when I was like, okay, great. I don’t have, I’m not assuming any [00:19:00] risk by making this investment.

[00:19:02] It was, it felt like, Ooh, like big. It felt big. Yeah. And then we started, and my whole life changed. So what do you remember from that time? And let’s also then get into like the nuts and bolts of. What does it take to get a book published, either hybrid or traditional?

[00:19:20] Richelle: Yeah. Well, just to layer some more flattery on you, um, you were such an amazing student of that program because you came in and like with all things that I’ve seen you do, you were just absolutely determined to learn it, to dive in.

[00:19:35] You were. You’re welcome. It’s completely open to being coached, to participating beautifully. You had done the work in your business and you were running, you know, programs and you were coaching people. So you had a pretty good idea of where you wanted to go with this book, but you were really open to like.

[00:19:52] The framework of what it takes to put a book vision down on paper. Um, and I think that’s where people need to be at the beginning [00:20:00] of this process. You have to have a little bit of certainty within you. You have to really want it because the book process is wonderful and so rewarding and it’s not quick and it’s an investment no matter which way you publish, but the payoff is.

[00:20:17] Is so big, right? All the opportunity, the stages, the media, all the things that you now can add to your list of accomplishments. But I think that when people begin this process with too much uncertainty, when things get hard, sometimes they’ll step away. And it takes them a long time to come back. You were like, go, go, go, go.

[00:20:38] Eye on the prize. Um, and I think that that really served you well.

[00:20:42] Lily: Yeah. I mean, I think that I, Chris remarked the other day that I love homework. I love a checklist. We have these weekly money meetings in our relationship now. And, uh, we come away with action items and I was so excited by my action items that week, like did them all in a day.

[00:20:59] I was like, [00:21:00] Oh, Chris, I just did. He’s like, you really like homework. I was like. How’s this a surprise to you? Yeah, I’d love to check things off the list. Yeah, oh my god. But you provided such a step by step, helpful framework to doing this book proposal because for anybody that doesn’t know, Rachelle tell people how to write books.

[00:21:20] And get a book published, like, like dispel, let’s dispel any of the, you know, fantasy and just like really get into the nuts and bolts. Now, this is for anybody who specifically has this dream in the short, short, near or long term.

[00:21:35] Richelle: So this is for nonfiction books because the process for fiction novels, children’s books, all that is quite different.

[00:21:42] But in nonfiction, you want to come to the table with an idea. You want to make sure that it’s something that you feel very strongly about that you want to talk about for the next five years minimum of your life, right? Yeah. Huge, huge. Then you write the book proposal. The book proposal is [00:22:00] your ticket for entry.

[00:22:01] If you will, in traditional publishing, you need to have an agent who pitches you to publishers. Agents and publishers will make their decisions solely on a book proposal, not a full manuscript. So the book proposal becomes this 70 to 90 page document that allows you to showcase your book idea, showcase your vision, you as an author, you as a marketer sample writing.

[00:22:27] So there are seven key sections to a book proposal, each with their own strategy. Can we pause it here? People are shocked.

[00:22:34] Lily: When I tell them about a proposal, yeah, when I say like, I spent, I, uh, I mean, your course, your program is very, um, it’s 10 weeks. It’s very like, here’s the timeline. Here’s what we’re going to do.

[00:22:49] Here are the group calls. Yep. Let’s do it. You know? And I did that. Yep. Yep. But it did take a lot longer to finish the sample chapters, to get it right, to do the editing of it, to [00:23:00] sharpen sections, to update sections based on where I was at that point. It

[00:23:04] Richelle: took

[00:23:04] Lily: about a

[00:23:04] Richelle: year. Yeah, it does for most people. 10 weeks is like the core learning is what I try and remind people.

[00:23:09] Our group sessions go through week 16. And then a lot of people will need some extra weeks and time depending on what’s going on in their business to go, when’s the right strategic time for me to like put the final, you know, Dot the I and send this out to agents for submission,

[00:23:26] Lily: but it’s wild how important this proposal is to you.

[00:23:31] You share, but I’m just reaffirming like, Oh my God. When I shared with, uh, with people about the proposal and the need for the proposal and how long the proposal is and how many hours go into creating it and how well you helped me craft it. Johanna Castillo, my incredible agent said it was one of the best proposals she’s ever Ever read, which is a huge compliment.

[00:23:50] She’s a huge deal and reads so many book proposals, but it’s also like the patience that it takes to be with yourself and your own story and figure out [00:24:00] how to do this new skill is so intense. So keep going, keep going. Yeah,

[00:24:03] Richelle: because it’s a different part of the brain too. It’s, it’s not sort of sinking into creative writing.

[00:24:09] You know, we talk about like the chunky knit sweater and the cabin in the woods and you know, your cup of tea and everything flows out of you beautifully, like the movies. What it is, is it’s a sales and marketing brain because that’s really where agents and editors are acquiring from because they have to make sure it stands out in the market, which is why thank you for that compliment.

[00:24:29] It’s why agents and publishers see my proposals and go, we knew it was a Rochelle proposal because it’s because. I’m not writing it from an editorial standpoint. I’m writing it from a PR and marketing standpoint. So everything that I do with my clients is making sure that it absolutely pops with personality, with passion, that it’s undeniable.

[00:24:51] People are entertained when they read it because the people on the other end of this are human. They’re reading thousands of these a month. So it’s, to me, it’s how do you see it? [00:25:00] Stand out in that crowded market. And that’s how I try and get people to think, which by the way, learning that train of thought and the book proposal only serves people when they go write their book and when they market it and everything else, but for the author, the book proposal is so important because it is the biggest piece of self advocacy and agency you can have in this process.

[00:25:23] It is how you position yourself for aligned. Partnership in agents and publishers. And that’s the goal for me. How do we show ourselves fully? How do we validate this work? How do we show its value in the world in the market and and and stand out so that The right person can come be my partner on this.

[00:25:46] This is not begging for attention. You’re not, we are not a pick me, pick me person in this capacity. What we’re doing is we’re looking for our match to bring it out into the world with us. And that can only be done if we really nailed up a [00:26:00] proposal.

[00:26:00] Lily: Um, what then you have a book proposal, let’s say that what happens then, then you

[00:26:05] Richelle: pitch it out to agents.

[00:26:06] So you come up with your list of literary agents who have either represent books that you love or they, you know, they work in a genre that you’re writing into or you, whatever, you know, you looked at your favorite book acknowledgements and it said, thank you to my agent. And you’re like, okay, that’s going on the list.

[00:26:22] So you build your list and you pitch your book proposal to them asking for representation. That process can take. Two weeks or it can take two years and this is where, you know, people get a little freaked out and where I remind them of surrendering. They’ve done the hard work and now it’s just letting the right person come along, but it’s that sort of search for the right representation.

[00:26:45] And once you sign with an agent, they are going to pitch it to publishers on your behalf and help you with the negotiations of finding the right publisher.

[00:26:55] Lily: And I mean, the amount of vulnerability that it [00:27:00] takes from my perspective as a client of yours doing the proposal blueprint and then also working with you one on one because I just wanted more of you and your brain.

[00:27:08] It’s wild. The amount of vulnerability and the when. When I worked so hard on this 90 page proposal with your help, it was so beautiful. It felt like my little baby, you know what I’m saying? Like, like a, like a big baby is 90 page baby. And then when I got rejections from agents, I mean, you really, um, held space for that while also normalizing it.

[00:27:29] It’s like, this is really normal.

[00:27:31] Richelle: And it’s not about you. Like rejections aren’t about you. It’s what the agent can confidently sell based on what they’ve done in the past and who they know, you know, it’s like, I think when authors or when any type of creative puts something out in the world and it’s, it, it’s sort of judged or met with rejection, like we automatically want to go, we’re not good enough.

[00:27:53] Our idea was bad, right? Where all these internal stories start taking hold. But in reality, because I’ve been in [00:28:00] all these seats, I know that the majority of those rejections are based off of either they have a competing title, they don’t feel confident that they can sell it well with their experience, or they think something’s missing and they may not have the bandwidth to help you get there in order to pitch it out.

[00:28:15] There’s so many reasons, but what it is, it’s just one more step of getting towards the right agent to rep you.

[00:28:21] Lily: Well, and, and the idea of it’s so hard for dating and for publishing and for anything, when the thought that you have, I mean, it’s hard and sometimes it feels hopeful. It’s like, it could be today.

[00:28:39] It could, it could be today that everything changes. And I, like, for me, it was like, um, I didn’t have a lot of like, y’all, y’all know the story if you’ve been listening to the podcast, but. Before June, 2022, I didn’t have very many social media followers. I, I was, you know, sort of a, a smaller, um, podcast. We had about 200 listeners [00:29:00] per month or 200 downloads per month, which is even fewer than 200 I was grateful for those things.

[00:29:04] And Richelle, you and I have talked at length about this. Those I was grateful for those people. I was grateful for those supporters. I was grateful for the clients who had worked with me, like the stories that I got to shepherd and the love stories that I got to see blossom were so incredible that didn’t change.

[00:29:18] But what was painful was that I didn’t have like numbers on paper when I’d written this book proposal, which is again why. You know, there was part of my brain that was like, why did you do this book proposal? Because you didn’t have the numbers even and now it’s even longer of a process, blah, blah, blah.

[00:29:35] But my body and my intuition knew that it was the right time. It was the aligned support. It was the right proposal. It was the right project. And that, you know, you really encouraged me to keep going. and trying new things. And that’s when I got on TikTok. And that’s when I went viral. And that’s when everything changed truly, like the numbers increased.

[00:29:54] And you don’t have to go viral, by the way, to get a book deal or to, you know, [00:30:00] most people do not, but that that’s just how Worked out for me that that was one sort of thing that tipped the scales.

[00:30:08] Richelle: I think too, for publishers, like it also part of what they’re looking at is, is like demographic of buyer. So you are writing about dating, which lends itself to a certain age demographic, most typically speaking.

[00:30:21] So they’re like, well, where are those buyers? Those buyers are on social media. We would love Lily to have more social media. Um, More of a social media community, right? So if someone is, is writing about something that doesn’t lend itself to a big social media drive, many, many people get book deals off media appearances or speaking or corporate connections or the numbers in their business or their email list.

[00:30:44] Like there’s no magic social media follower number, but for certain people where they know a lot of the buyers sit in places like Instagram or TikTok, they’re going, it would be great. To have that to sell this book.

[00:30:58] Lily: For sure. For sure. [00:31:00] So I just want to, you know, recap for a moment. You held the lantern up start before you’re ready.

[00:31:07] It is difficult. And it feels like such a life affirmation to write down your story and to have somebody believe in it and to have somebody asking you the questions like, okay, why this, why does this matter? What is this about? Like the deepening of, you The critical thinking of your own work that happened during the book proposal process was so rich and, and, and needed in my life and business.

[00:31:29] And then the start before you’re ready of it all. And then also the, like, it may not make logical sense, but it’s coming.

[00:31:37] Richelle: Yeah, I

[00:31:37] Lily: think that that’s the opportunity is coming. It’s coming. Even if it doesn’t make logical sense right now, if you have, I like to say, and I’ve said it with you before is like, if you have a desire for something, that desire gets to be evidence that it exists.

[00:31:50] And my story isn’t is evidence of that. My client stories are evidence of that. Your client stories are evidence of that. Um, mine included. So [00:32:00] tell me about what then. But then, so you write the proposal, you go to agents, then you get the book deal, hopefully, and then you write a book. How do you write a book?

[00:32:12] Oh, I don’t know.

[00:32:12] Richelle: You tell me. It’s hard. It’s hard. Yeah. So typically you get, you know, six to nine months. I think you got a year.

[00:32:22] Lily: I got six. I told, oh my God, I remember this moment vividly. I was so cocky. I walked into that meeting with Chris Sean. I was like, Oh, I’m so glad to be up. So honored that you’re my publisher.

[00:32:31] Blah, blah, blah. And she was like, how long do you think it’ll be? Six months. Chris Sean, I’ve got it in six months. I’ll be done in six months. Y’all I was not done in six months. I had to ask for an extension. I had to, I cried a lot about it.

[00:32:43] Richelle: It’s so common. I know you

[00:32:45] Lily: said that I didn’t believe you because it just felt like, no, I’m the one client that’s different.

[00:32:50] So

[00:32:50] Richelle: many people, so many people, which is why I always think, you know, if you need more time negotiated on the front end, like everyone thinks they’re going to be ambitious and be able to do it, but it’s going to [00:33:00] take longer than you think. So if you need nine months, if you need a year, I’m seeing a lot more of those contracts these days, nine months to a year.

[00:33:07] Yeah. Yeah. Which is

[00:33:08] Lily: great. Mine was about nine months, but it is such a labor of love. And then this book is out in the world.

[00:33:16] Richelle: Yeah. It’s scary. It’s so

[00:33:18] Lily: scary and fun. Is there another client who you love talking about in your roster of like, you know,

[00:33:25] Richelle: Oh gosh, I

[00:33:25] Lily: don’t believe it’s possible to, I now

[00:33:28] Richelle: have a published book.

[00:33:29] Look, I think about my client, Sam Vanderwillen a lot because she It’s sort of like an against all odds situation. You know, she started her book proposal. We started pitching it out. She had such a clear vision on how she wanted to support people like you. Like I met her and she’s like, I know where I’m going.

[00:33:48] I know how I can help people. I’m doing it in my business already. And she, she starts the process. And within a couple months, both her dad and her [00:34:00] mom died. This is a situation that reminds you of. The real humanity that exists within publishing. Cause we don’t hear these stories all the time, but she, I think it was nine hours after she got her book deal, her mom passed and she couldn’t, and she talks about this very openly and has some podcast episodes about it, but she, she really had to try and write this book while breathing and handling legal issues and all of these things.

[00:34:30] And, and, And the writing took such, um, a journey and transformation from what she thought it would be, because she was just in a different headspace and her publishers, like, take all the time you need her agents, like, take all the time you need. And so, you know, another person that’s like, I’m going to need more time.

[00:34:48] I’m going to need more time. And. Publishers just want you to have a good book. So if it takes extra time, it takes extra time. But she is, um, similarly reaching this finish line later [00:35:00] this year. And for her, it’s been like, Oh my, I did something so hard in impossible circumstances. You know, it required her advocating for herself and asking for her needs to be met and taking time and revisioning what the fantasy of this was going to be like, I know you’ve done some of that work yourself.

[00:35:21] It’s like the reality is not matching this fantasy that I had in mind. And

[00:35:26] Lily: I’m

[00:35:26] Richelle: here to tell you very few people have. The full fantasy, right? And there’s just, there’s a lot of ebbs and flows, but I just, every one of my authors has a very unique experience experience, which is part of why when people are like, I don’t know if I can do this.

[00:35:42] I’m like, you can, because I’ve seen it happen a million different ways.

[00:35:47] Lily: Right. I mean, I say the same thing with clients like saying, I don’t know if it’s possible for me to find the right relationship. And I’m like, well, you can, it is possible. I’ve seen it a zillion times. And I just love that we are both [00:36:00] of our work gets to be this like vision casting and then very specific milestone journeys, like milestone hitting to get to where you to attract what you want and to create what you want in the world.

[00:36:12] Richelle: And finding an agent and finding the right publisher is a lot like dating.

[00:36:16] Lily: Yeah. It’s

[00:36:16] Richelle: like, yeah, you’re going to see certain things on paper. But the way you feel when you’re in conversation with them, when you’re in the room with them is going to tell you everything you need to know, which is part of why I tell my clients.

[00:36:30] It’s not just about the number. It’s not about the number that they’re offering you in an advance to go write this book. It is. Is this person the right one to bring it to life with me to champion it with me through the end? And that is energetic just as much as it is strategic.

[00:36:49] Lily: Well, I’m, I’m just so grateful for you and grateful for the ways that you’ve changed my life.

[00:36:55] And for the final question, how can [00:37:00] people. Start telling their stories if they are stuck in comparison or self doubt specifically like the story of like everybody else. I mean, I remember this when I wanted to start my podcast back in 2020. I was like, everybody has a podcast. Why do I need a pot? Why do I want a podcast that everybody?

[00:37:20] And I, when with somebody struggling with comparison, but who really feels in their heart, they want to tell their story specifically with a book. What would you tell them?

[00:37:28] Richelle: The biggest piece of advice is that whether you’re sharing your story in a blog or you’re sharing it in a book or in a podcast is to remember that while it’s about you, it’s not for you.

[00:37:42] So the, the biggest way we can both get out of our own way and get past the fear and also get really good at telling our story and making an impact is thinking about What we want the person on the other end to grab on to, what do we want to resonate? So like when people [00:38:00] come to me, they go, I want to write my memoir.

[00:38:02] I go, why? Not that memoir is no wonderful, beautiful category for many of people, but when you get to the core of it, a lot of times they’re like, I want to show other people what it’s like to overcome a challenge or to be resilient. Or to lean into joy because I’ve learned this. So when you grab onto the lessons, the themes that you really want someone to hear and absorb and integrate, that’s how you become a good storyteller.

[00:38:31] And that’s how you become a better writer. Because while you’re sharing your story, it’s really about what someone’s receiving on the other end.

[00:38:38] Lily: Mm hmm. Yeah. So good. Rochelle, who is right to work with you? Like when you think about your dream client, talk about them, what are they, what questions are they asking?

[00:38:50] And then how can people work with you?

[00:38:52] Richelle: Yeah, thank you. I mean, I love I love a disruptor, right? I just love someone who’s like, I’m going to [00:39:00] speak to the counter position of something, or I want to shine a light on something that’s underserved, a conversation that’s underserved, a community that’s underserved.

[00:39:10] I want to make the world a better place. So anything mission driven. Even if you’re a coach or a consultant or a business owner, and you have something powerful that you want to share, there’s usually something in there that I can grab onto and help bring to the forefront for you. So I think it’s just someone who has this certainty that they’re meant to share their message in a bigger way.

[00:39:34] You may come to me and I’m like, I love you, but this isn’t the right idea. So that’s part of being open to coaching is going, what is that first book? What is the second book? What, what makes sense, but I love to do this work. I love to be in thought partnership with people. So if you’re curious, just reach out.

[00:39:49] I’ve got several ways to work together. So book proposal blueprint is one. And then obviously I do some private work throughout the year now doing more live events these days. [00:40:00] So, um, I’m Rochelle Fredson everywhere. I can say my own name, Rochelle Fredson. com,

[00:40:07] Lily: Rochelle Fredson. com R I C H E L L E F R E D S O N.

[00:40:14] com. You can find Rochelle’s info in the show notes. She’s also on Instagram at Rochelle Fredson and uh, y’all go check her out and she has amazing things online that you can binge for free right now to get inspired and get moving on your dream. If your dream is a book. I hope this episode left you feeling inspired to take up more space, to start telling your story more often, even if it’s not a book, just really allowing yourself to say what’s on your heart and to shoot your shot, um, before you’re ready.

[00:40:46] So thank you, Rochelle. Thank you for everything you’ve done for me. I’m so grateful that you came on.

[00:40:50] Richelle: Thank you. I’m so proud of you. Congratulations. Thank [00:41:00] you.