Have you been wanting to start that next big project or creative hobby this year? Get ready to ignite your creative flame with this episode featuring the hosts of The Spark File podcast, Susan Blackwell and Laura Camien! Lily is thrilled to welcome Susan and Laura to the show, together they dive into a candid conversation about creativity and overcoming perfectionism.

In this episode, Lily opens up about her creative journey, from battling self-doubt to manifesting her dream of writing a book. Discover how Susan and Laura’s New Year’s Creativity Kickoff planted the seeds for Lily’s inspiring ideas and fueled her audacious declaration to write a book and start a podcast.

Tune in for moments of celebration, insightful reflections on the creative process, and a deep dive into the challenges of increased visibility. Grab your favorite beverage, cozy up, and join Lily with guests Susan and Laura for a chat that’s equal parts inspiration and real talk. 

Links:
Pre-order Lily’s upcoming book, Thank You, More Please!
The Spark File 2024 New Year Creativity Kick Off
The Spark File

Show transcript:

00:21:05] Lily: award winning PR professional, well, I have some thoughts, uh, no, VP of Blue Man Group, Laura Kamian, you’re doing so much. You have done so much that I admire.

[00:21:15] Laura: Well, listen, I will, speaking of these, of PR and interviews, Lily, what you do on social.

[00:21:23] And the interviews that I have seen you do, you do everything that I was, I was in charge of trained, like the media training for people. Right. And you do everything. Everything you are, your authentic self, you are so energized and the words which is hard to do be bodily energized and super clear. The words coming out of your mouth.

[00:21:48] You have such clarity and they like shoot right through. But my favorite part, Lily is even when the volume is turned down. This was my test of any [00:22:00] good interview. No volume on no sound. Do I lean in to say what? I don’t know what that person is talking about, but I want to know and every single time I’m scrolling on Instagram and I don’t have the sound on and I see you at your full bodied.

[00:22:23] Like your full embodiment of all everything that you talk about, I have to stop. I stop and I’m just marveling at you and I’m just like that. Lily Womble it. You just you get it. You live it and you breathe it. And now you are like, you have an infectious to you that I think other people. Are drawn into and they’re like, I want that freedom.

[00:22:48] I want that authenticity. I want that feeling. I want that ability to express myself that honestly.

[00:22:55] Lily: Yeah. Thank you. That’s a gift. Thank you, Laura. I [00:23:00] received that. I’m grateful for that feedback and those thoughts you

[00:23:02] Laura: receive that girl. And I’m going to steal that phrase too. I receive that. I

[00:23:07] Lily: receive that.

[00:23:07] It’s a, it’s a, it’s a way to not say, Oh, shucks. Oh, shucks. I, well, my whole thing. I. I don’t know if, in 2017, I went to my first Gilmore Girls Fan Festival, which is a huge, you know, part of my life. And, and then this, then the second time I went to Gilmore Girls Fan Festival, I, of course, got on stage at karaoke night and did a stirring rendition of Dolly Parton’s, I Will Always Love You.

[00:23:36] Okay. Not the Whitney belt. I think I could do Dolly’s. But I don’t, I’m a met, I’m a Metso Alto drew. So anyway, I kill it. You know, I, I have a great voice, , and, uh, the only thing I regret, the only thing I regret is that, uh, the mic kept cutting out. So I was like, and, uh, well love you. And so anyway, great. So this [00:24:00] woman comes up to me and I’ve, I think I’ve told this story on the podcast, but it bears repeating y’all.

[00:24:04] This woman comes up to me, Neil’s next to me, I don’t know her. She’s like, Lily. She doesn’t say my name. She wouldn’t know my name. Hey, I just saw you saying I loved watching you. I’ve always wanted to do karaoke. And this is what I think y’all do too in your jobs. I’ve always wanted to do karaoke, but I’ve been so afraid to do it.

[00:24:20] And I’m so nervous to do it. Would you come up with me and do karaoke with me? And I said, I would. I would be so honored to help you birth your karaoke career. She chooses. I’ve learned to slam on the break before I even turn the key, uh, waving through a window from Dear Evan Hansen. Her choice, you know, she got up there.

[00:24:44] And I am standing parallel with her. Turns out the DJ, also a lovely, uh, musical theater lover, and we all start three singing together. And she builds up the confidence enough to where we can sing three part harmony with her. And then on the [00:25:00] chorus, we step, like, we step back and allow her to just sing.

[00:25:04] And I, she doesn’t need any of us anymore. She just is on stage stinging. And so this experience of like full body, like Oh my God. I want to help people get on bigger stages. I want to help people get on bigger stages. And I think that’s what y’all do too. And why your creativity workshop is so powerful.

[00:25:24] Your, your group coachings are so powerful because you give people the permission tools and community to get on their bigger stage.

[00:25:31] Susan: Yeah. I received that community. Okay.

[00:25:41] Lily: You haven’t learned more than one thing on this call, Susan. I can’t date

[00:25:44] Susan: brazen podcast. I have, I actually have so many questions for you, but I don’t want to, I don’t want to take the steering wheel because this is your podcast.

[00:25:51] Laura: This is your podcast,

[00:25:52] Lily: Lily. I’m curious about perfectionism and I’m curious about how you’re seeing perfectionism [00:26:00] manifest in folks who are on the cusp of claiming. Their, their project or call on the cusp of claiming this thing, like, what is from your perspective, what’s happening and how do people overcome it to move forward?

[00:26:15] Susan: Perfectionism. Laura and I actually have developed curriculum on this because it’s It’s pretty, you know, I feel like that’s a pretty common experience and Laura, I’m interested to hear what you have to say about this. The first thing that comes to mind with what would you ask what’s happening there? I feel like it’s a form of protection.

[00:26:39] Like we are trying so hard to protect ourselves to simultaneously be vulnerable. Take a big creative swing, be self expressed, and then that counter commitment to also remaining safe and kind of protecting ourselves from just chowing it and really, you know, and that might come in the form [00:27:00] of cracking on the high note.

[00:27:02] When you sing waving through the window at karaoke or getting hot, hard criticism, swinging, you know, swung back at you. Um, so that’s what pops into my mind just with the answer to what’s happening there. Kim’s. What are your thoughts about that? I so many,

[00:27:18] Laura: it’s like 1 of those, like, it’s a big time in my mind.

[00:27:20] So many thoughts, it’s a big topic, but, um, we did a podcast episode all about it. And I remember talking about how I did not consider myself a perfectionist. Cause I thought I was like, well, if I was perfect, I’d be a lot better at. Something, I’m not even like, I am too imperfect to even be a perfectionist.

[00:27:44] And then I read more about it and I was like, oh, this is exactly what I’ve been doing, protecting myself as Susan said, we have a client who’s working on a show right now, Mariah Grandy. I hope you don’t mind that. I’m about to share a line that Mariah [00:28:00] Grandy owns this line.

[00:28:01] Susan: Mara. Grandi PS did a concert last night at green room 42 that blew my body

[00:28:08] Laura: and she’s working on a new show.

[00:28:10] Now that will come to us in the future. She it’s, it’s a bit about competition and she says, um, about her mother. Mom never loses because mom never plays and. I think about that all the time, and the way that we protect ourselves from that pain of like, oh, I tried something and it didn’t work out. We think we can keep ourselves from feeling pain if we don’t try.

[00:28:39] But I think that Susan and I both believe that that pain that grows within us silently over the years, the longer that we don’t Try that. We don’t give ourselves an outlet to, you know, a place to put these desires that we have, like maybe we’ve always wanted to paint. Maybe we have truly believe we have a [00:29:00] great story to tell.

[00:29:01] Uh, we’ve always wanted to sing any number of those things. The pain of not doing it grows within us just as much, if not more. If not more so on the short term, we’re saving ourselves pain today, maybe, but in the, it’s just compounding. We

[00:29:20] Susan: believe we believe, you know, Lily, one of the things that, something that we say a lot around the spark file is, um, B plus work out the door, B work out the door.

[00:29:33] It’s sort of like you teach the things you need to learn. And that is something that was helpful to Laura and I, as we were, you name it. Building our business, writing curriculum, coaching. Launching our website. A website’s a great fucking example because it’s never going to, it’s a topiary. It will never be perfect.

[00:29:53] It always needs more pruning and attention. And, uh, but also, uh, speaking, doing [00:30:00] public speaking engagements, name it, fill in the blankers. We were just like, this is going to be, this is going to be B plus work out the door. And it doesn’t mean that we’re not aspiring to and working towards making things that.

[00:30:16] We care deeply about that. Others will have a strong, positive response to et cetera. It’s just the permission that a perfectionist like me or like Laura needs to be like, it, it can, you can push ship on this without it being perfect. And I’m curious for you, Lily, with your book, which is. It’s not set in stone, but it is like printed on two pages.

[00:30:45] If there was any, I

[00:30:46] Lily: mean, it, it is the most set in stone of anything that I think creator could create besides like maybe a movie or a TV show that’s on TV. You’re not going to be able to edit it again.

[00:30:59] Susan: Did you have [00:31:00] that wrestling match at all with your own perfectionism as you were? You know, preparing to have it sent to the printer so that they could develop that box of bouncing baby books that you received today.

[00:31:14] Lily: Well, this, yes, I mean, this process has been, I got the, I got my incredible literary agent who. Y’all listeners will hear more about my incredible publisher within a month of each other and then October 20 because the tick tock of it all so that that influence the podcast that that influence like everything because I gave myself permission like tick tock went viral because I started getting you were free.

[00:31:40] Laura: Really

[00:31:40] Lily: expressing yourself. So I was free and I was saying, I’m just going to be messy. I’m going to share my thoughts. And then it blew up and that the amount of exposure that that brought in the amount of love and hate and people calling me a scam because I charge money for my [00:32:00] services. There was a person who did a whole video about me.

[00:32:02] It was a whole like, uh, interesting. Oh my God, y’all, it was,

[00:32:07] Laura: but Lily, all that is meant to get them views. You should be flattered. That’s a total rage

[00:32:13] Lily: farming. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Anyway, I got kind of a mini version of that, you know, it’s a micro, that was a microcosm of now what the book is. So the book process, I remember it was such an evolution of like.

[00:32:28] Uh, getting messy, then trying to do it perfectly, then getting really hard feedback from my publisher and editors, then getting angry about that feedback, realizing, oh, they’re right about all of it. I need to really humble myself and get out of my own way. I need to show up because I was at certain points trying to write it as coachy coach Lily, you know, the Lily, there were thoughts along the way of like, I’m not educated enough to write this.

[00:32:55] I haven’t read enough books to write this. I haven’t, I’m not, I call [00:33:00] myself an intersectional feminist, but I don’t, I’m, I don’t know what, who am I to, yeah. And it was such a, I mean, panic attack sometimes. I think that I got a lot of support through it, therapy, coaching, Chris has been an incredible support.

[00:33:18] My friends were incredible, but the wrestling with that was a year. A

[00:33:24] Laura: year that is huge, Lily, and that is the barrier to entry. We talk about so much because the alternative to being disagreed with or, you know, being.

[00:33:39] Lily: Or worse

[00:33:42] Laura: is to just not say anything at all. And that’s how you can move through the world.

[00:33:47] Keep it all contained and don’t draw attention to yourself. Don’t say anything. Don’t tell your stories. Don’t share an opinion. Don’t do anything and stay nice and safe. And if that is the, you know, your goal. [00:34:00] Yes, but when you have something to say that, you know, will make a difference in the world that, you know, will, will help other people and affect other lives in a positive way.

[00:34:11] I think it behooves us all to find a way through that and understand that’s the price of admission and be willing to pay it.

[00:34:20] Lily: As you have. Well, and, and, uh, I thought at different times, this is never going to end. I’m never going to finish this book. I’m going to have to give my back my advance because they hate these pages so much.

[00:34:33] I’m gonna like, uh, my brain tends towards anxiety. I feel so deeply for my clients who, for example, say things like, I really want to start playing guitar more. But I’m just so busy, you know, and that’s really about something else. Or I really want to get my friends together and jam, but will anybody show up?

[00:34:54] You know, I really want to actually, I want to take this class about interior [00:35:00] design in another state, but I, I, I’m. Like, how am I going to balance that with my response of it? Like all of these sparks that people are facing and the, the, the blocks that they come up against, whether they be logistical and, and they overblow the logistical blocks and, and make that mean that they don’t have any time for their creative juice or whether it be just the insecurity of like, who’s going to care?

[00:35:22] Because what about people who. You know, don’t my book is my create my book is the creativity. My business is the creativity. I’m so grateful and privileged to be able to live. I mean y’all it’s very I would imagine very similar. You chose a business where you could do your thing and for people whose thing like life thing business thing work thing isn’t painting or drawing or who have this spark inside of them.

[00:35:47] Like how how can they give themselves permission to start pursuing it messily?

[00:35:54] Susan: Well, Lily, I, again, I feel like your, [00:36:00] your experience declaring that you are going to launch this podcast and write this book, and then your blow by blow description of what that has been like for you. And I’m sure for your followers and your listeners and your clients, they.

[00:36:17] I, I bet you strike a really great balance, though. You prioritize them and, and their needs, but you’re also, you are forthcoming about and authentic about how it’s been for you in this creative process. And what I just think it’s such a beautiful illustration because your creative process, though, the medium you work in may be distinct.

[00:36:43] From other artists, your creative process looks very similar to almost every other artist and creative we work with. There are not many people, even people that your listeners think are just on this [00:37:00] steady. Upward trajectory in their creativity that it’s all just one straight line pointing upward on the graph.

[00:37:08] Really, if you had an authentic conversation with them, you would understand that. It all looks like the craziest jiggity jaggedy ride on the stock market. Like it is an absolute rollercoaster and. It’s so fun to witness the birth of an idea. Like when Lily made that declaration at the new year’s creativity kickoff, and it is so fun.

[00:37:34] I can’t tell you how gratifying it is to see you hold up that beautiful baby book. But the reality is those things are super fun. And there is always. With significant creative work, there is always a messy middle. There is always how am I going to take that design course that is so [00:38:00] spark ish to me, but it’s in another state or it costs a lot of money or there’s, there’s, you know, it’s not.

[00:38:07] It’s, it’s hardly ever easy not to create a narrative that it has to be overwrought and it has to be, you know, like as Laura Kamey would say tears before bedtime every night. Like it’s, it does. It’s not that way all the time either, but it’s not It’s rarely just like a smooth sail towards an upward trajectory.

[00:38:29] It’s very rarely that, and I feel like what you’re describing is a great illustration of what it’s really like. And to answer your question specifically about, you know, how it’s almost overcoming limiting in internal limiting beliefs. Internal personal objection, right?

[00:38:52] Laura: Yeah, I, I would say, like, the way we begin where we begin is very similar to where you begin based on what I [00:39:00] understand from your, from your social media, because I haven’t taken your course only, but.

[00:39:05] When you talk about the 1st step being like, getting to know yourself as much as possible, your wants, your needs, your values on our side. It’s very similar to it starts with giving yourself permission to be as much. And as authentically your weird little self as possible. So if you’re finding that you suddenly have an interest in Bob Ross painting, we’re going to say, lean into that, lean in.

[00:39:36] And even if you’re like, but I’ve never wanted. To paint before, I don’t even know where this is coming, coming from. It will say, lean into that, follow that little spark of interest based on authentic, like what you yourself are telling you, not what we’re saying you should do or what other people are suggesting.

[00:39:55] You know what you should do? We’re going to say you should lean in as much as [00:40:00] possible on your authentic self and bet on your authentic self, every single. Time. Susie.

[00:40:07] Susan: I can build on that. Lily illustrated something beautifully when she said, when you made that creative declaration at the new year’s creativity kickoff, you were shaking your, you were having a visceral response in your body and that can take many forms.

[00:40:25] Sometimes it happens in people’s bodies. Their hearts, their minds or their behaviors, meaning sometimes your body shakes. Sometimes you start to sweat. Sometimes you feel like you’re going to shit your pants. Sometimes your heart beats faster. Your breath gets shallow. That’s in your body. Sometimes you can experience it emotionally in your heart.

[00:40:44] Like I. I feel scared. I feel overwhelmed by this. I feel confused by where this is coming from. Sometimes we experience it in our mind where our thoughts will start to race or pinball around, or we’re sort [00:41:00] of flat. Our thoughts will flatline when we come face to face with the possibility of a big creative risk.

[00:41:07] And sometimes it can be in behaviors. Because we’re face to face with the possibility of a big creative risk, it makes us want to get under the quilt and binge television or drink a box of rosé or video or play video games like all weekend long so that there’s no space to actually step lean into the creative risk.

[00:41:31] As Laura was saying, yes,

[00:41:32] Laura: even overworking

[00:41:33] Susan: or making your schedule perfectionism is so crazy. But Laura and I really believe that. All of this is identifiable and it’s tolerable. So if, uh, the possibility, the spark of an idea of a big creative risk rises up in you, like I would love to launch a podcast. I would love to use that as [00:42:00] research and development for this book.

[00:42:02] And you say it out loud and it makes you shake to, to identify and say literally to say out loud in the next breath. I am shaking right now. My palms are sweating. I cannot believe I’m saying this, but I’m going to say it again. Like that sort of thing, just to acknowledge that even saying it out loud and continuing to breathe.

[00:42:30] It’s tolerable. And then you can get to the good work of, and here’s some next steps that I’m going to take towards it. Here are the people that are in my corner who can support me as I take those steps, et cetera. So can go from being like this massive, seemingly unattainable, seemingly very distant thing to, you can start to.

[00:42:56] Just using the powers of thought and some good [00:43:00] support to, I don’t know, make it come closer, come into reality and to de excite your nervous system simultaneously.

[00:43:09] Lily: Laura

[00:43:10] Laura: thoughts. Uh, this is not an add on to what Susan said. So I’m saying an emphatic yes to everything that Susan said. And one other thought came to me and that is giving ourselves and each other permission to make an investment in ourselves.

[00:43:24] Because we are worth it and sometimes we are met with, um, a belief system about artistic endeavors that like, we should be able to do it alone. I shouldn’t need any support. I shouldn’t need a coach. I shouldn’t need a, a group of people around me supporting me. I shouldn’t need that. It is about investing and it’s this that I think about this is something like.

[00:43:51] I’ve given too much thought to this. I want to admit on the front end, but it boggles my mind that we, we tend not to calculate [00:44:00] how much money we spend not doing something. So what are we spending on our streaming services and are going out to eat and are and here’s 1 that I really, it really gets me. Oh, well, I’m like, listen, someone would say to you like, wow, you’re taking that class.

[00:44:17] What was that? It was a thousand dollars. What was that? Wow. That’s crazy. And I want to say to them, like, you’re a big chiefs fan. How much money have you spent on merchandise this year to wear your gear every Sunday? How much have you spent in steaks and barbecue supplies to bring everyone together on Sunday?

[00:44:36] How much have you spent for the NFL package on your TV? I have no criticism about that at all, because if you, if that’s bringing you joy and that’s like what you are feeling passionate about belonging, like,

[00:44:48] Lily: please do it,

[00:44:50] Laura: please like do it. And I know you’re not thinking, wow, my being a fan of the chiefs cost me 4, 000 [00:45:00] this year, but there is a cost.

[00:45:02] There is a cost to everything that we do. And. So I just wonder, like, what might happen if we don’t apply that barrier to these investments in ourselves that are like a class, something I want to learn or experience for the 1st time or travel or do and I’m just like, please, please invest in yourself.

[00:45:23] Please spend the money on yourself to feel that joy to feel that self expression. And that’s my, that’s my rant for, for now. Also, I’m a sports fan. I do love, I do love some,

[00:45:33] Lily: I do love some well from that. I got that you hate all football lovers and that you are condemning them. No, I, I fully agree. I mean, I think for my work, my business, I think about the amount of therapy sessions that people pay for just talking about dating when their therapist hasn’t dated in 30 years.

[00:45:51] That’s right. And that’s right. I think that that’s right. The idea of even the spark to get support can be [00:46:00] really powerful and creative in and of itself. Because I think, you know, I’ve heard y’all talk about the co creation and I talk about that too, like the co creation of it. Um, yeah. Get having the spark of, I want to get support for this idea that I have and then showing up for it.

[00:46:17] And then being in a room of other people, we both do group coaching y’all and me and, and, and co creating results that didn’t exist before with our brains and other people’s brains. And even being around other human beings, energy, virtual or in person can co create incredible thoughts and results. And, um, I just want to.

[00:46:36] Uh, validate for everybody when I had the thought of, I want to start a podcast. It was not a given, like it was not a given that it would be a success to me. It felt like I think I’ll be successful. However, at the time I had thoughts like everybody has a podcast. I’m too late. Who wants, who cares, right?

[00:46:54] Who’s going to care. And for several years, it was. Me and [00:47:00] 20 listeners, 30 listeners, 40 listeners, then a hundred listeners. I celebrated a hundred listeners and it was for years. And I just think that that being willing to be uncomfortable, you know, like you’re saying, Susan, you do the emotional granularity work of like, I’m feeling X, Y, Z about this and it’s tolerable.

[00:47:21] I’m not dying from feeling uncomfortable, putting myself out there. I think that that will lead to the biggest magic in all of our lives this year.

[00:47:32] Laura: Oh, amen. We agree with that 100%.

[00:47:36] Lily: Well y’all listening, we have put all the info that you need about. Susan and Laura in the description of this episode, their new year’s creativity kickoff is January 2024 on zoom.

[00:47:49] And it’ll change your life. Like it changed mine. I’m sure. Um, y’all, this has been a full circle moment before you do your outro.

[00:47:57] Susan: Can I please, can I please [00:48:00] just say one more thing to you? Yeah. Yeah. Lily, I’ve been knowing you a long time. Um, and. I just want to say, just hearing you do that outro, I, before I interrupted you, something that we really give a lot of thought to with our clients in the spark file is identifying all of their.

[00:48:25] Superpowers, the things that seemingly come to them naturally, those gifts that they have cultivated, the resources that they have, the wisdom and expertise from their lived experience, et cetera, and identifying all of those things. And then creating a container that is large enough. To hold all of their awesomeness and all of their hells yeses.

[00:48:53] Those things that just light them the fuck up. You have created a container [00:49:00] that is, you have so many superpowers, you have so many gifts, you have, you have so many things that light you up and you have created a container that’s large enough for you to. Beautifully and elegantly braid together all of your gifts, including your gift with language, your gift with coaching and supporting people, your gifts as a writer, your gifts as a vocalist and a dancer, just the way that you have braided it all together is such a thing of beauty.

[00:49:34] And when you started that outro, I was like, look at her slide into that outro. Like a. God damn professional with one hundred and sixty million episodes of this podcast under your belt. Like I just, it’s gorgeous and we would be remiss if we didn’t recognize it.

[00:49:52] Lily: Oh, Susan, I received that. Thank you so much.

[00:49:55] I love that so much. That makes me sweaty. [00:50:00] My dress armpits are. It’s

[00:50:06] Susan: all tolerable. It’s

[00:50:10] Laura: custom made. You custom made that container and I think that’s something that every single person can do.

[00:50:18] Lily: I really do. Well, just to offer it on back to y’all, I think that that room that you’ve created virtually and in person, wowee, wowee, what a testament.

[00:50:30] Like, I get to be I get so sexy. I get to be a living, breathing testimonial for y’all’s work. And I, I’m such a, such a fan of, of walking the walk, you know, and you allowed me to walk my walk and, and do what I help people, other people do for themselves. And you got to be my. part, a huge part of my spark for this next phase of my life and career.

[00:50:58] And it, uh, [00:51:00] truly, I could say 50 bajillion more grateful things because y’all changed my life. Like we receive

[00:51:06] Laura: it, we receive it and we will be at that book launch. You

[00:51:11] Lily: just tell us. Oh my God. I’m planning. I’m planning a big party.

[00:51:14] Laura: Yes, please. We’re inviting ourselves.

[00:51:18] Lily: I want to leave you with one, one thing.

[00:51:22] I’d rather be nine people’s favorite thing than a hundred people’s ninth favorite thing. Nine people’s favorite thing than a hundred people’s ninth. Favorite thing. That is from Susan and Laura’s incredible show. Laura is a producer. Susan was a co creator and a, and an actor in a title of show, life changing and honestly Broadway changing.

[00:51:51] So fucking Broadway show that those two, these two have created and staged and done. And that song changed my life even before I knew you both. So thank you more, [00:52:00] please. Thank you

[00:52:01] Laura: more, please.

[00:52:02] Lily: Okay. That was just a beat of, of just like, um, just spark, pip, cozy tingle. Okay. Y’all, I’ve got a, I’ve got a, which is a term I learned from, uh, Susan.

[00:52:12] I’ve got it in this cause I will keep talking forever. Y’all go sign up for the New Year Creativity Kickoff if you have the availability and the feeling of urge to get yourself in that room. And I will talk to y’all next week. Bye. Bye. Bye.[00:53:00]