Have we got a show for you this week?! Lily welcomes former Brazen Breakthrough client Liz to share the building blocks she used to attract the love of her life. In this episode, Liz opens up about the importance of using essence-based preferences, learning to ask for what she wants, and how she did courageous things in her dating life.  The episode promises many “aha” moments and includes a powerful statement from Liz, which we hope resonates with you!

Featured topics include:

• Liz describes what it was like to be stalled in her dating life and why she decided to go to Lily for help 

• How qualifying and disqualifying questions helped Liz define what she actually wanted

• Liz describes what it was like to believe in herself

• We hear how Liz navigated her experience of coming out as bisexual and sharing her love story with others

Links:

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Subscribe to The Date Brazen Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or Stitcher!

Show Transcript:

Lily  00:00

Hey gorgeous friends, I’m so glad that you’re here. Today’s episode is a really, really special one. And I honestly feel pretty emotional about it. In a great way. I feel so honored that my client, Liz was game to come on the podcast and share her love story, and share her experience inside the brazen breakthrough. We work together in and you’ll hear more about this in the episode in a moment, I just wanted to share, we work together summer of 2020. And we talk about how the lessons that we went through inside the Brazen Breakthrough almost three years ago now were the building blocks for her attracting the love of her life. And I’m just so honored that she again was game to come on, I know you’re going to be inspired, I know that I I know I shed some tears, maybe you will too. And I just wanted to come on here and share that if you have been yearning for clarity for peace for groundedness for expansion in your dating life, that confidence that you’re looking for that you know what you want does exist that you do get to take up space with your desires and your preferences that you get to expand into what you want if you’ve been yearning for that. And if you have been noticing your brain going into thought spirals, like Liz is about to talk about, like I’m behind. I don’t know how to catch up. I don’t know if what I want is even possible. Am I too late. If you’ve been watching your brain do that, then it’s time to take action for yourself. It’s time to give yourself permission to be supported. It’s time to create a clear path to attracting what you desire. Because I believe that if you desire it, that can be evidence that what you want exists. And so if you have been yearning that if you listen to this episode, and you’re like, Oh my God, how do I get into the brazen breakthrough? What is this magic it is magic and it’s co created gorgeous results. The brazen breakthrough has shifted over the years if you’ve listened to the date brazen podcast for any amount of time, you’ll know that I’ve been running this program for the past four years. Though the format has shifted in some ways the program remains the same in its bones we are teaching you how to own every single essence based preference how to ask for what you want out loud and often how to care deeply for your nervous system as you do courageous shit in your dating life for your desires. And you’re learning how to attract the love of your life with more ease than you thought possible both online and in person. And so if you want to join us the doors are open right now. We are open for enrollment right now you can start creating these results with the brazen breakthrough today. And our next live group coaching session of which you get a year of is coming up very soon. So come join us the water is warm, you get to want what you want and you get to create a clear as hell path to attracting it. And that’s what we’re doing inside the brazen breakthrough. So enjoy this episode with Liz. I know that it’s going to have so many aha moments for you Liz says some there’s what I won’t ruin it now I’ll shut up in just one moment. Liz has something that I am still thinking about like hours and hours later. It’s rattle it’s like rumbling around in my brain. You’ll know the moment when it comes. It was one of the most powerful things I’ve ever heard anybody say so with that let’s get into the Episode 

Lily  03:48 

Hey Emily Womble former top matchmaker and founder of deep brazen after setting up hundreds I realized that with coaching women could match themselves better than anyone else ever could. But my unconventional feminist approach I’ve helped women around the world build courageous and self trust filled love lives and now I’m here to support you get ready because I’m about to share the exact steps you need to attract a soul quenching partnership and feel amazing about yourself along the way. This is the date brazen podcast. Hello Gorgeous friends. Welcome to another episode of the Dave brazen podcast today we have a special treat or I have a special treat which is talking to one of the most incredible humans and my former clients. One of my most incredible former clients, all of them are the most incredible and I was so excited to bring Liz on specifically because she recently got engaged and she recently started sharing her love story on social media which is she you know we were DMing privately which is how I knew about her love story and then I just like once I saw how she She was showing up for her own love story in her in the in a public way, both in DMS. And in a public way I was like, We need to talk about this main character energy that you are embodying. And, you know, I definitely want to talk about our work. Our work was so impactful for me to witness as well. And this is kind of weird, because I haven’t announced I haven’t brought Liz on, but I’m like looking at her talking to her. So let’s just bring Liz on. Hello, Liz. So glad you’re here. 

Liz  05:31

Hi. So glad to be here.

Lily  05:33

Amazing. Okay, so tell the people a little bit about yourself. Like what what is important to know about you?

Liz  05:39

So I knew you’re gonna ask me this. And like what all to say, no. Well, so I live in Indianapolis, Indiana. And I got connected to you through the practice, the private practice I work with. So I’m a counselor, licensed mental health counselor, and the owner of that practice had you on her podcast. So this is a full circle moment. That’s kind of how I kind of met you. So I’m a counselor, I love CrossFit. I’m active. I love just being curious and building relationships. And I love to be silly and laugh and have a good time. And I love honest conversation. So I’m really actually very excited that I can step into this space today with you.

Lily  06:19

Amazing well, so in the spirit of honesty, Liz you might have heard my microphone, bumping up against the armoire like the little armoire that I’m sitting next to y’all. There were some truck backing up difficulties in my neighborhood I had I am sitting My ass is sitting down on the ground of my closet with the microphone in my hand. And Liz is like along for the ride. So this is not my usual setup. And I’m so excited. I was like, there’s nothing that will stop me from this conversation Liz. I will, I don’t care that there is a Mack truck being backed up constantly. For the past hour outside my window, we will figure this out. So this was a very important conversation for me to have with you. I think because our I remember our work as really deep almost immediately. Do you remember? How do you remember our work? And how did it feel to start working together? And just full disclosure, I think it was like, two, three years ago.

Liz  07:22

Yeah, it was like the summer of 2020. So the world has shut down. And I had done a lot of work like backstory, like I’ve done a lot of counseling work myself, I mean, like to be effective. And you know, to grow. I’m very growth oriented. So I was like, done a lot. But this isn’t really in my life. I hadn’t really felt like I had just, I don’t know, kind of like tapped into myself how I needed to I didn’t have words for a lot of stuff. I didn’t know why dates weren’t working, or I was going after people that it just it was supposed to connect and on paper it look great. But it wasn’t working for me. And so whenever I heard your podcast that you did with Kristen, I like heard your energy, I heard what you’re about. And I was like I need that I need that structure, I need that energy. I need I need that confidence. Like I didn’t have confidence because I didn’t really know myself in that area, which is kind of hard to admit sometimes. But I remember what I remember from our work was initially, I remember our first conversation like the intro call to like, see if we were going to work together. And I was just straight honest. I was like, I feel like I’m like at sixth grade. And I’m like working backwards. I’m like, I don’t feel like I’ve grown in this area of my life. And I’m not sure why. Because I’m successful and this and this and this. And so it was really just very raw.

Lily  08:39

Yeah. And you know, Liz, I hear that all the time amongst especially people in the helping professions, especially therapists, with so many therapists, I’ve heard a lot of trepidation coming from them about the group coaching aspect and like, how am I going to tell people that I’m a therapist, and I’m in a group coaching program for dating? And are people going to judge me and my efficacy in my work? If I don’t have everything figured out? Does that resonate?

Liz  09:08

Yeah, I feel like for me, it was like, I didn’t know how to talk about myself with it. I listened to people all day. And I I’m very good at picking up on that stuff for other people. But for myself, like I hadn’t really dove in into this topic before. So I think when you created a niche of what like the program and the structure, it felt safe enough to try not just like, let’s go, you know, x y just do whatever you want. You know, I’m like I’ve been doing that for a while I needed a system that I felt like what helped me navigate what I needed to and I think that’s what it did.

Lily  09:38

Yeah, cool. That system that you’re talking about is the brazen breakthrough. Yeah, at the time. It was like group coaching and some one on one coaching and now like three years later, it’s a self guided experience with some group coaching as well and I actually a year of group coaching instead of just the three months and so it’s like it’s it’s evolved but the bones are the same just to let you know, tell me why do you think looking back? Why do you think you were stalled out in that area of your life?

Liz  10:10

Yeah, that is a very good and deep question. Um, I think honestly, looking back on it all, so I grew up in a very like, evangelical Christian community. And that’s totally fine, right? Like, I love Jesus, all that, but the way that I grew up in the way that I was taught, meant that it things had to look a certain way for them to be like, ideal. Like, that’s how I took it, it was like, Oh, well, if I’m, you know, the, you know, the strong Christian person that I need this pastor who I like, Go, and I marry, and then we go, you know, all this stuff, you know, and I’m a helper. So I was like, Oh, I can do you know, all this kind of stuff. And I also like, went to a private Christian school or for college. And so and I was like, I have a lot of records in basketball. So like, I kind of feel like I embody this space, where I was taught and kind of trained on what success looks like, in dating. And, and I kept trying to do that. And it was not working for me. So. So what stalled me out was I didn’t actually get to know myself. I didn’t get to explore what I was attracted to what I was interested in what how I even wanted to feel on a day. I think when you said that once, I was like, what, I get something. And then it just opened me up to like, oh, all these possibilities. So I was stalled out because I don’t think I had the right spaces to really explore who I was and be able to navigate what I needed. That felt selfish in that space.

Lily  11:45

Oh, okay. Well, it could have been a lot of little things could have been one big thing like what felt like a turning point in how you were centering yourself. In your dating life, like what made you decide, I get to focus on it is okay, like, because I grew up, you know, in the Baptist Church, and my church was kind of moderate, like looking back, it was pretty conservative compared to like, who I am right now. Yeah. And in Alabama, it was a very moderate to liberal Baptist Church. And we were being taught abstinence, but you know, only before marriage, there was no whiff of any sort of sexuality beyond being straight. There was no like an end that, you know, and it wasn’t that I was taught in that church that being anything other than straight was like wrong, but like nobody ever talked about it, period. Yeah. Just like it doesn’t exist. So anyway, all those things like and in that context, it was selfish to center yourself or talk about yourself in a certain way. So like, so I resonate and I wonder for you what was the turning point of I get to quote be selfish or center myself.

Liz  12:58

Okay. I remembering back when on maybe one of our first or second like calls that we did whenever we did this call one on one through was it voxer and I remember being i remember i verbalized for the first time, I was like, Lily, I feel like a quarter of the time I’m attracted to females. Like I remember I said something like that to you.

Lily  13:17

I remember where I was not to make it. It was not about me, I remember where I was, when I received that message. I was like, right outside my house, same house, a walking down this block. And I remember hearing that and tell me about what that was like to say.

Liz  13:29

Yeah, that’s so that’s so cool that you remember that. So for me, I just like the words were it was stuff was flowing out of me. Like, I just I feel like I had the space to actually be honest and like, explore what the heck things meant and not feel shame about it. So like, just saying that out loud was like, Okay, this is true for me. I don’t know what it means. Like, legitimately, I didn’t know what it meant. Yeah, so it was just this really beautiful uncovering of probably just a lot of how I’ve been made and wired for my whole life. And I just didn’t even have the resources or tools or spaces to be able to even name that. So it was basic, it was it was a turning point of like, all these building steps of like, acknowledgement, acknowledgement, and you validated that you were like, oh, okay, like, you know, it didn’t come back at me in some way of, you know, I’m wrong, or, you know, challenge me or whatever. I just got to process and be myself.

Lily  14:26

Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that. And, you know, I think I said in response like me, too, you know, like, I was like, I Yeah, and I’m happy. I’m happy sharing that and it was it was a really cool moment of belonging for me as a coach truly. And I think that more often than not my clients in a like I work with, I have worked with women in the past for whom this is true that like, maybe this is the first time they’ve thought about their preferences and thought about their, what they how they want to feel. And that opens the door for Am I a little bit am I my queer? Or is my identity? What I, you know, thought it was? And I’m so glad it was a safe place for you to think about that and explore that. Tell me about what how that shifted things for you. What was your relationship to that discovery at that time? And how did that shift things for you?

Liz  15:26

Yeah, it just it gave me an energy that felt true for myself. Like, it felt like I was finally saying things that were true and not. And I was like learning how to not be afraid of that. So then we go our group coaching calls, I never said one thing to anybody else, like I didn’t like, go to our group and be like, guess what, you know, I just but I took in everything we were doing. And I was, I knew that a part of me inside it was an internal process could be much more connected. And then, as I, you know, went through the program, and just all we can talk about that more too. But like the way that you set it up, I really loved the preferences piece, the feelings piece, and then the question is the qualifying and disqualifying questions? Yes, that was probably like the best thing for me because it really narrowed down like what I want to engage with someone and what energy I want to pick up on. I just really had never thought about it, like, so I thought it was supposed to be a certain way and come to find out it’s more of what other people wanted for me than what I even wanted.

Lily  16:28

Mm hmm. Yes. And what do you remember learning about how you wanted to feel? Or like what your preferences were in that process? I call it the essence based preferences. And it’s definitely like in the current brazen breakthrough, on this day, February 28 2023, like essence based preferences are the keystone of the brazen and have been for the past five years. So there’s wonder what that was like for you what what you remember about that?

Liz  16:58

Yeah, well, I remember that, you made a specific shift from a checklist to like these preferences, these essence based preferences. And so like, I was like the typical, taller than me, this job, this, you know, this athletic build, whatever. And I was lining up with, obviously not emotional people that were not emotionally on the same playing field as where I was at. And so lack of self awareness, all this stuff, because I wasn’t really showing up as myself. And so with these essence based preferences, I remember, like really diving into, like, I want to be with someone that is emotionally, like aware. Like, or hold some self awareness is growth oriented, likes to communicate, where we can be silly, and also talk about something deep in the same conversation. Like, I just remember being like that vibe, and that feeling that I would want to have. And very heart forward like, I think my heart got to open up because I really learned a lot about myself that I had shut down so much. And I didn’t know I had that my heart wasn’t even showing up on these other dates, which is why we weren’t connecting, because I wasn’t actually present. This goes super deep, but like, it’s really it was just really an unlocking of my own self like things that I knew, but I never really connected to, that’s the best way to say it, because I didn’t think I could, like I didn’t think that I could connect to I didn’t think I was going to find someone that could be emotionally available to me. Or that I would feel emotionally safe with even not that people were unsafe, but like I would have to bend myself to fit what they needed instead of just being myself.

Lily  18:44

Yeah, I fully resonate with that in my journey to Liz and I just wonder that, you know, there, I’ve been here I’ve been talking a lot and thinking a lot about this concept of believing that what you want as possible. And it’s a struggle for so many people, especially who are in the throes of maybe feeling hopeless. And that feels like it’s never going to end you know, feeling hopeless or what how would you describe the process of saying, Okay, I want this let me give myself permission to I get it is something that can be in the real world because some people do that as they think about or talk about essence based preferences with me and they’re like, Yeah, I can put down in my nice to haves but like Does it even exist? What was that process of believing that it existed for

Liz  19:29

Yeah, you know that this is so helpful even talk about that. I think that so for me, I had obviously like it was COVID we had done the essence based stuff we’ve done the group I moved into a house I got a dog like all these life changes were happening for me that were aligning for me more it wasn’t just this it wasn’t just dating right. So it was like there was so much whole alignment happening that my the force of my life was moving in a direction that fit me so well that I couldn’t not keep going like I was like compelled to keep going, I think is the best way to put it. So like our group was just encouraging, like, keep going, you know? And I think that and then the way that people were talking all that so but for me, I realized and identified through that time to like, Oh, I’m bisexual. Oh, fascinating, like, and even that word was like, Can I say that word? Like, what does that mean? Like, because growing up, I have like learned, you know, what I’ve kind of been taught my head is like, you know, maybe that’s like, same sex attraction. That’s a that’s a common thing people say,

Lily  20:33

Yeah, I would imagine in that context wrong. Right? Or like, not ideal, like, you know, right, hate the sin love the sinner of it all. 

Liz  20:42

Yeah, it was very much like, you can do something about that attraction. Like, it’s like, it was just, it felt like, there was a lot of responsibility to move away from that. And so I had done that so long that I think, again, like I was so compelled toward being in my own life. Like, my heart was so open that as we were navigating things, you know, for me, it was just naming, I’m bisexual. And then it was, oh, as I go through this dating process, I’m going to open it up to dating females, like, I’m gonna do that. And that was like a huge step. Like, huge.

Lily  21:17

What was that like for you?

Liz  21:19

It was terrifying a little bit. It was kind of like the both and of I was, I was in uncharted waters. And I knew that people in my life, some people were not going to be okay with that it was a lot of thinking through how do I need to show up for myself. And then it took a lot of courage. That’s the best way I can say it. Because it was something that I could do internally, and then grow out. I’m a very, like, foundations up person. So I was like, Okay, I’m gonna, like, do this, I’m gonna open it up. But I also don’t want to be like, fake with the people in my life. But I also need boundaries, right? So it was a lot of just paying attention to what I needed, having conversations with people that could understand me, and allowing myself to grow bit by bit and integrate it in until it came to where it is today. So, but really opening it up on hinge, just the app I was on to everyone. What did it for me was this disqualifying qualifying question? 

Lily  22:22 

So yes, tell me more. 

Liz  22:23

Yeah. My question was, what sets your heart on fire? 

Lily  22:29

Yes. 

Liz  22:30

And it was like, just right there for me. Right. And so I put that out there. And honestly, there are only a few people that I put that out there to and the person that responded back to me. I mean, it was just it was the energy was everything that you said on the thing, like, all of the emotion will be there the feel the and I was like, I can’t believe this. Because I’m like, Are you serious? And it wasn’t abnormal. It wasn’t like some like, oh moment, it was just like, oh, we connect, like, how she said it was connecting. And so that really like that really helped me because then from the start, we were connected and got to know each other from there. And it was just awesome. Absolutely awesome.

Lily  23:05

That’s so encouraging, and exciting to hear that for y’all listening, the flow inside brazen breakthrough, even three years later, is still like ground in your essence based preferences. Give yourself permission to want and then have those things that you want. And then learn the questions that you can get to need to ask someone to gauge whether or not they have those deeper, essence based preferences. And don’t be afraid to be a little intense with your question. If it feels authentic to you use it. And so I hear you know, the what, like, you know, what, what sets your heart on fires is one in my list of 100 plus questions. And I’m so grateful. I’m glad that you did that. Because I wonder, you know, if you were just on the app and trying to make a connection, I hear that there’s more ease with the clarity of that question. When you connected with the right person for you. 

Liz  24:07

Yes. I think the word clarity is big there. Like that’s probably what I gained through the whole experience. And then specifically there exactly, it was it was clarity, and it was a you said intense. I think that’s one of the things that like, I didn’t know cuz normally people are like, hi, hey, how are you doing? What are you up to and and it can just take so long and then truly, that’s not that’s not building authentic connection. Like even if you met someone in person, you’d have different energy if you said hey, in person, you could feel a different energy. So I think that it really allowed, like who can step into this with me, right and who, and that’s what I needed because I was looking for a teammate, not someone I had to like be small for.

Lily  24:51

Excuse me, Liz. Oh, excuse me put that on a t shirt. I feel like that gave me such a huge P T, pussy tingle, it’s saying that, like, I’m looking for a teammate, not someone I have to be small for. 

Liz  25:11

Yeah. 

Liz  25:14

That’s really powerful. How does that feel to say, what’s happening in your body right now? 

Liz  25:14

That like energy. I was like, Yes. Like, I like to do athletic things. So I was like, Let’s go like, yeah, I felt like, I think too with that. And I know that that’s an internal, that’s an internal work right there. But I needed to have also people in my life that were supporting and encouraging me in that. And so to be very honest, I think that what I was doing in Date Brazen I was getting all that encouragement that I needed. And like almost like hearing it enough that the part of me that had because I’m a very, I am a very courageous person. That’s always been true. But I didn’t know how to apply it in this area. And so it was almost like getting that. And then once I knew it, I couldn’t unknow it, it was like, well, now we’re in it. And that’s what I mean by everything in my life. And I just knew everything was going to change, not everything, but a lot was going to shift the core of who I am the foundations of my life, were going to be there. But the expressions of that were going to shift in a way and I really wasn’t sure how it was going to rock. A lot of my ecosystem, like, especially relationships. So

Lily  26:21

can you share a little bit about Okay, so you meet this human on hinge? Who is a woman? Yeah. And tell me about choosing each other. And first what that was like for you to find this love. And then we can talk about ecosystem rocking. 

Liz  26:40

Okay. Yes. Well, like I said, her response to the question was like normal, but it was kind of like, where do I start? And it was like it’s real. But it just felt good. And then we basically just talked it was very normal. Like we’ve like, felt like normal, easy conversation on hinge for like, a week. And then we exchanged numbers and met up outside because it was still again, like COVID time, and

Lily  27:08

Put us in the time it was in January. Go ahead. Go ahead. 

Liz  27:11

No, yeah, it was January. So actually, January 1 is when I open up 2021 is when I opened up to females. No, no, I lied December, like, around Christmas time was when I opened it up because Date Brazen just ended and I was expanding. And then I met her I matched with her on hinge on January 3. It was very quick in that way. But then COVID, like vaccines hadn’t fully come out yet. Yeah. And so we were very cautious. She was an educator, I’m a counselor. So people, you know, we wanted to be careful for ourselves and other people and our family members. And so we decided to meet at a national park near me called Fort Bend a State Park I mean, and we socially distanced met outside in January. And we got there and we allotted like, a couple hours, just give or take, you know, outside, and we ended up walking in the freezing cold for three hours. And I didn’t even know where I was anymore. Good thing. She’s good at directions. I was like, How do I get to my car, but it was just I’ve never left something feeling like we still wanted to talk like we had more to talk about or do. And we really just talked about musicals. And you know what we did, but it was just the energy was so palpable, and it was just so exciting. 

Lily  28:29

The fact that you two walked in the Indianapolis, January 3, weather for three hours together says everything to me. 

Liz  28:40

Yes. And like, yeah, no, she’s so she’s five, like two, she says five, three. And I’m like, I’m 510. So like, I walk faster, but I wasn’t thinking about it. So now like later on, she told me she’s like, Liz, that was the fastest walk I’ve ever done in my life. She was like, when we were on up hills. I was just breathing and that coming. So it was funny. Oh, good. Yeah, it was funny. Just to hear some of that.

Lily  29:01

What was that like to receive what you’d been asking for?

Liz  29:05

That took me months to take in. I think I’m, I think I am. If I’m being really honest with you, I think I am just now settling into that. I think for my on my end, like I had, it was all like a lot of process quickly, which is kind of which is kind of how these different chunks of my life work. But if I like dive in, I dive in kind of thing. But I’d say like initially, like we did that walk and then I was like, oh, I want to see her again. She wants to see me again. And it was then it was like, Oh, wow. Like I’m gonna go on a date with a girl. Like, I mean, it was like people are gonna see this like, who’s gonna see me that knows me. So I really had to step into my authentic self and be okay with navigating things. So I was navigating for probably a good six months to a year, sharing with my parents, all that kind of stuff, friends. All kinds of things work. Like nobody in my life knew I didn’t know Like, right, my counselor and she’s like I knew and I’m like, Well, of course you did. She tried to get me to process this like years before. And I was like, No, it’s not a thing. Yeah, yeah. So it was just a lot of like freedom and unearthing things, but then also a lot of grief and a lot of a lot of practicing compassion and boundaries and a lot of anger. I think, because of this, it was really hard to have had these connections with people and not be able to help them see me better, even though I felt like I could see where they were coming from, because I grew up that way. I didn’t feel seen. And then it caused some friction and some just some hurts in the relationship. And I think, you know, that’s something that as a counselor, like, just in my own practice, and then just meeting with people, like we know, when we grow, and there’s transitions, like there’s grief in it, because we do grow more into ourselves. And not everyone understands or goes there with us. And there’s just a lot of things that go into that. But I think for me, in particular with this area, it felt like something that was supposed to be so happy, held, held heaviness to it as well for probably a good year. And then the past year, I’ve really, like felt more light and like, oh, yeah, I don’t care about that. I’m good here. This is okay. Like, do you know what I mean? So yeah, that’s kind of in my journey. It’s been a little like backwards. Like even our dating we like we like we’re in each other’s like spaces first because of COVID and then went out. So I kind of feel like it’s been like a backwards process of that. But the excitement and the freedom of it is so much more now even than it was then.

Lily  31:34

Wow. And tell me about you know, I remember, again, not to make it about this is about you 1000 trillion percent. And I want to touch down on when I learned about your new relationship. Yeah, you know, something that you shared at that time with me? Because I think I checked in to see like, how are you doing? Do you want to work together again? Do you want to come on the podcast? Do you want to like I was just like, where are you at Liz, you know, and you share that you were in love and that you had found somebody and I was just like, oh my, so fun and exciting. And that you know, you were with a woman and and that you were not able to you did not feel that it was the right time to share publicly because of some homophobia that you were faced with in your life institutionally specifically, would you mind talking about that?

Liz  32:31

So I’m like, which, which part of that but yes, I. So I don’t really know how much to get into all this. But basically, for me, like, it was one of those like reality moments of like, oh, like the things that you hear about people facing like I’m facing it, it was weird. Because normally, like, I’ll be really honest with you, like, I think I protected myself enough to keep my privilege. And I was I was letting it go. Now I am a white, I’m I’ve got a lot of privilege still, like I’m not saying that. But as in the Christian world, like, I passed as straight completely in a lot of ways. And so it wasn’t like in the church world. And so it wasn’t like I could, I could still show up as myself and be this like golden child that I had been and not even like have to deal with any of this stuff that I watched other people have to go through like people losing their jobs, because they were in a same sex relationship at like Christian schools, or institutions, or all this kind of stuff. So I felt like I was just kind of like, I was at this moment of like, okay, here we go. Like, we’re going to embrace this. And so I navigated like different conversations with different people. And one of those being like the place that I had worked, where I’d actually gone to school, a part of where I worked, I worked as an adjunct professor there, you know, I had reached out and shared some of myself, and I didn’t want to make anything public. Because if I did, and they found out I would lose my job. And this is not my private practice where I work, they’re phenomenal, supportive, wonderful, everything growth oriented. Yeah, they were very supportive, and to be honest with you, if that support wasn’t there. And I was just working at an institution where they would not accept me and I would get fired, like, I probably wouldn’t have done it, to be honest with you. So like, and I’m not, there’s no political stance to this for me, I just I know that for myself, because that’s my livelihood. It felt like survival a little bit like, and I think some of this was my own stuff, too, of like, you know, I was no longer people pleasing. I was no longer making myself smaller hiding parts of myself. And they weren’t used to that, right. Like, they’re used to a whole different situation from me. And when I know, when I know better, I’m doing better. So that’s what I was doing. But I had to be careful, because I didn’t want to lose income, to be honest with you. So all this to say, I waited because I needed to talk to them. And I had a conversation. And you know, I actually felt very good about the individuals I talked to with and it was good but as an institution, they couldn’t they couldn’t accept it. So it was just one of those like, ironic things where I hold a lot of records and, but these other parts of me mean that I have to leave. And it was the weirdest of I think the wording told to me was that we need our employees to have integrity or something like that. And I was like, Oh, it’s just like, it was the most obvious counter to that. So I think those are just examples, which I’m not saying anything other people don’t know, you know, like, this stuff happens across the board in a lot of ways. But I think for me, it was, it was just that just showed me that like, I could trust my gut it makes sense. why, I protected myself for so many years. It made sense why I couldn’t own any of this for myself. And I felt really like a lot of compassion for myself, honestly, like, and it really made me know, because I know many people that don’t feel comfortable or safe even expressing, like, any part of their sexuality in the circles or whatnot. And it’s, it’s really stunted people’s growth because, like, I’ve experienced that, you know, so I really feel like, it’s good to talk about these things. Because no matter if people’s stories, like align with mine or not, it’s it’s real stuff that’s very, like messy and hard to walk through and takes a lot of courage. Truly.

Lily  36:08

Yeah. Thank you for sharing, Liz and hearing from you, like, I think you’ve shared like, if I come out publicly, I’m gonna lose one of my streams of income. I was like, where I live in Brooklyn, New York. You know, I’m from Birmingham, Alabama, but have very intentionally removed myself from any conservative Christian institution truly or any conservative institution. And I feel great about it. Yeah. And so hearing that was sort of like, Oh, holy shit, like there is a level of privilege to living in the New York bubble that this is this is fucking real. And people are unsafe around like the around this country and like, queer people, trans people, like it wasn’t that I didn’t intellectually know that and hearing from you like that, that you were being faced with? Such a shitty, standard homophobic, standard, unjust standard. If we’re going to talk about it, un Jesus, like standard, yeah, like at a at a Christian institution was like, was really upsetting. I really appreciate you sharing. 

Liz  37:19

Yeah, yeah. No, thank you for saying that. And just acknowledging. Yeah, some of those pieces absolutely

Lily  37:26

are so you are so courageous. I mean, like, you are so courageous. I mean, I think anybody falling in love after feeling like they aren’t allowed to want what they want, that is courageous in and of itself. And then the layer of like, coming out and being authentically you in a in an environment that is not necessarily welcoming or warm. And that is, in fact, dangerous like that, you you choosing yourself in that way. And choosing that you had your own back and that you had your loves back like that is fucking courageous and so beautiful. And I’m so inspired by you.

Liz  38:03

Thank you, Lily. Yes, I appreciate you saying all that. And even as we’re talking about it, it’s, it’s just cool, because I think Martha Beck maybe wrote the way of integrity, maybe that’s the book I was also reading. That’s a good book. It’s interesting how, how I felt very powerless at the beginning, I think is what I would say like, even before, like, when our first call, I was like, I’m in sixth grade and dating what’s happening. And then like to come full circle here, and like to keep growing and all that. It’s like, I feel like this whole process though, it’s, it’s shredded things that aren’t me. And I’ve gained more of my own power. So even like saying or talking about stuff. I mean, it’s amazing, like what energy put out there and what comes back. And so I think that like, again, leaving that institution, and then it’s like, opened up all these other doors of things. So like, I didn’t even know, like, I didn’t even know there were like, open affirming churches in Indy, I had no idea like, yeah, to speak to that, or different parts of things. So like, to allow myself to not have to fall in a black and white space. But to fall in an integrated space that works for me, like feels very empowering. And I feel like I know so many people that, that what that or that? Like, I mean, I know many people who are in this position and who haven’t owned it, yet to it. It’s just like, I think it’s just an empowering process. And you’re, you’re truly your structure helped me navigate that and I’ll be very honest, I tell people, my clients about this stuff all the time. And I’m like, I’m not a dating coach, but these disqualifying qualifying questions. I’m like check out lily like truly because I really truly believe that there’s like power in that foundation and so yes, I’m very grateful for getting to work with you and you’re not like trying to put me in a box.

Lily  39:48

Thank you for sharing the date brazen word. I and I also will say like, that’s why I started doing this work is that I wanted people to feel that there was a space that they could come into and belong, you know, however they identified, I think that a couple of clients have come to the realization that they’re at their core, they want to be poly, and that that is their permission that they’re giving themselves after feeling years that that was wrong or not like the right way to date or whatever. And then there are clients coming out is as queer pan or gay or like and being their authentic selves, or they come into the space, knowing that about themselves and giving themselves even more permission to what they want. And it also goes for like, I mean, it’s everything, you know, and it’s why when you talk about how this work, you know, sort of, there was momentum in your life that you were you got this new house, you got the dog, you got like you were saying you were living more into your values, and that created this wave of change. And that’s the goal, I think of everything that I do is that it is a holistic wave sea change towards your agency. And so it’s intentionally about dating, but not about dating.

Liz  41:13

Yes, absolutely. I kind of like, to go like so I do go to across the gym. And like, these are adults that paid a workout. Like we’re pretty motivated at this point. Like to do this. Why? I don’t know. But like, you know what I mean, it’s like, and I think it was like that it was like investing to do this. Like, there was a motivation energy around around that group with everyone to it felt really nice to have that accountability and encouragement and support similar to that, because that energy just doesn’t show up everywhere in life, right? We can’t just like so I think that that’s really cool that yeah, how you’re describing that. And just that energy that it brought, and the perspectives because like you said, Indianapolis, Indiana is different than New York is different than LA, like, there are people from all over in the group. I loved that. 

Lily  42:00

I did the math for my accountant. And it was like, she was like, how many percentage of clients were in New York? I was like, I mean, 25% and everybody else is somewhere else. And even, you know, clients in Scotland and London and and yeah, so it’s a really beautiful collective. I wonder for you like, let’s come back to the love story of it all. Liz? What was it like to you know, you’re recently engaged. I would love to hear the story of like, how you both came to the decision to do life together? And and take that step particularly. What was that like for y’all?

Liz  42:36

Yeah. Oh, this is this was cool to think about. So six months ended. So here’s my thought pattern. I was like, this, like, mind you, I was still like, highly protected. At the beginning. I was honest. And oh, that’s what I wanted to say. We were very honest with each other like, so I said to her, like, Hey, I’ve never officially dated a female before. Are you still open to meeting like, we like on hinge? Like we were super honest. And she was like, oh, yeah, I’ve had experiences, I understand. Yeah, it was still open to me. Like we had talked and shared, like, to the appropriate level of honesty. And it just was, like, so much trust was being built, that I couldn’t even believe that I could be honest with someone about it. And like they would take that right. So that was what was happening. Like, we were just ourselves and brought up things for the first like, what, three to six months, like getting to know each other so much. And I was like, I’m gonna give this six months because I need to, like, see how this goes, whatever. And there’s this apparently there’s this like, I don’t know what to call it, but like, they call it like a U haul, like U haul as means like moving quick. And I was like, That’s so funny. Like, I’m not like that. I’m like, listen, we are going to. But we had about six months. And at the six month mark, it was around my birthday. Actually, I just got this, like, it was just that same kind of energy and that momentum where I was like, I could marry this person. Like, I have never felt that before. I’m not this is like what is happening? Wow, this is like, this is real. This is deep. And and so then fast forward. So that was June of 2021. And then I proposed to her in September 2022. So my dad had actually passed before that, which is a whole nother thing. 

Lily  44:42 I’m sorry. 

Liz  44:43 Yeah, thank you. Um, but we have we’ve navigated a lot of those things from our separate spaces. So she lived about an hour away from me as well. So it was like some not long distance, but it was enough that you had to like plan and figure it out and where she lives and all this stuff. And so we had navigated a lot of that and more and more just knew just knew just knew like we were picking up on the same things like and so then that after that summer, he had passed and then in September I like I proposed to her and then that November she actually countered proposed to me and it was beautiful and awesome. And just like I don’t know if I think being 37 It’s different than if I was like 20 right Like it’s a different thing, but it was very like, it just felt like here’s my teammate, like, this is the person and very safe and very secure. Like after, especially after engagement. We were like, no one talks about what it’s like after you’re engaged. I’m like, it just felt secure to me. Like, that’s something that we had wanted and needed. I know, not everyone wants or needs that. But like, for us, it was just so secure. And then we are getting married this September of 2023. So.

Lily  45:30

Oh, congratulations, Liz. That is so exciting. And what was it like to propose and be proposed to?

Liz  45:38

I learned about myself that I like to have control. Go Figure. But I was like, so. Right. Yeah. Oh, so excited to propose to her and but I was like, when she can propose to me because like, we didn’t tell each other. They were surprises. And we knew

Lily  45:54

You had the conversation of like, we want to propose to each other. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Okay, cool.

Liz  45:59

Yeah, we had had that conversation, but then go with it, right. And so it was actually really sweet. So Rosie, and her was like, awesome, because I got to, like, plan this out. I loved it. And she was like, on the flip side, like, waiting a nerve, you know, that kind of thing. And then when she proposed to me, I found that like, I didn’t know she was doing it like it, because it’s not how I would have done it. Right. So we like surprise each other. But we swore the other person that was coming, you know what I mean? Yeah. So then we did that. And it was just like, I just to have that space and experience into someone, like, just humbly, like, show up in that and like, authentically, and knowing what we’ve been through. Again, the best way I can say it’s just a secure teammate. It was just felt so good. So my dad, like I said it past May of 2022. And so she actually set it up so that over the holidays, like there’ll be little mini celebrations, to like, also help support that time. And I just thought that was like the best.

Lily  46:59

That’s so kind

Liz  47:01

Just wanted to throw that out there. Yeah,

Lily  47:02

That’s so kind Liz. And I just, I see your I know that Instagram is not a life story by any means. And just seeing your joy posted. Mm hmm. You know, it’s like such a celebratory, like, act and I, especially what you’ve both faced and what you face personally, in coming out and being your most authentic self privately and publicly, I just like I am so moved, and so honored to be here talking about this and that your game to do that. And then also to be to have been, you know, a small part of your journey to giving yourself permission. I’m just I’m so I like teared up hearing your your story multiple times throughout this. Thank you.

Liz  47:54

Thank you, Lily. Wow. That’s, that means a lot. That means a lot. And I’m really grateful that I’m really grateful that Kristen had you on that podcast. And then I got in when you were like, yeah, like me, that was like one of the OGS a little bit like cuz you, yeah, the timing of it all. I’m just very grateful. So thank you for having me on. And like, letting me come talk about this. It feels like, you know, just my own story. But I really do hope that yeah, being authentic is good for me. And then also, hopefully, it helps somebody who can listen to it.

Lily  48:27

I know, it’ll help so many people listening just like the concept of wanting what you want, and how revolutionary that can be fundamentally to like oneself. That’s like that no matter what, you know, like that’s always in this patriarchal society that we live in. And if you know, the air we breathe, it’s revolutionary to give yourself that permission and to center yourself in that conversation. So so I’m pumped for you. I’m pumped to see the pictures in September. I’m so grateful to have this conversation. 

Liz  49:36 Thank you, Lily. 

Lily  49:37 Thank you, Liz. All right, to everybody who is listening. I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. Liz, thank you so much for coming on. 

Liz  49:45

Yeah. Thanks for having me, Lily.