Farnoosh Torabi joins Lily on the podcast this week! Farnoosh is a leading financial expert, host of the So Money podcast, and author of So Money, Psych Yourself Rich, and When She Makes More. In this episode, Farnoosh discusses the teachings and insights from her new book A Healthy State Of Panic, Follow Your Fears To Build Wealth, Crush Your Career, And Win At Life. The book (and this episode) illustrates how fear can be your superpower to maximize your success to live richer and happier. Lily also parallels the topics in Farnoosh’s book (related to fear) and how they can apply to the dating world. This is a fun, thoughtful, and heartfelt episode!

Featured Conversation Topics:

• The difference between harnessing fear and indulging it?

• How to build a healthy relationship with fear

• The fear of rejection, loneliness, and exposure in dating

• As you listen, think about one action step you can take to move with your fear  in a more healthy manner. 

Links:
One-on-One Coaching with Lily
So Money with Farnoosh Torabi
A Healthy State of Panic, Farnoosh Torabi   

Show transcript:

[00:00:00] Lily: Hey, I’m Lily Womble, former top matchmaker and founder of Date Brazen. After setting up hundreds, I realized that with coaching, women could match themselves better than anyone else ever could. With my unconventional feminist approach, I’ve helped women around the world build courageous and self trust filled love lives.

[00:00:20] And now I’m here to support you. Get ready because I’m about to show the exact steps you need to attract a soul quenching partnership and feel amazing about yourself along the way. This is the Date Brazen podcast. Hello, gorgeous friends. Welcome to the Date Brazen podcast. Today I have a very, very, very special guest named Farnoosh Tarabi.

[00:00:40] You may know her because she has led you through becoming more wealthy over the past, I don’t know, decade, helped you climb your financial goals, make them happen faster with her incredible podcast. so money. She is a leading financial expert. Um, as I just mentioned, the host of so [00:01:00] money, she’s the author of four books now.

[00:01:03] So money psych yourself rich when she makes more and now a healthy state of panic. I’m going to hold it up because I’m recording this video too. And I love this book already. It is a healthy state of panic. Follow your fears to build wealth, crush your career and win at life. It illustrates how fear can be your superpower in this heartfelt, clever guide to maximizing your success, to live richer and happier.

[00:01:31] So I’m so pumped to talk about this. Welcome Farnoosh.

[00:01:33] Farnoosh: Lily, welcome. Me to your show. I love it. I’m always on the other side of the mic. So when people are inviting me to their podcast, I, my first instinct is to go welcome instead of welcome. Yes.

[00:01:44] Lily: Well, why don’t we say welcome to both of us to this moment?

[00:01:47] That is never going to happen again. It’s happening right now. Once in a lifetime. And, uh, being on your podcast was such a thrill for me this year. And so just having you on my podcast means so much. [00:02:00] I’m so pumped to be right here right now with you. And, uh, I’m curious, like you’re in the middle, like this has come out a little later, but your book just released yesterday as we’re recording this.

[00:02:12] Tell me about how fear has come into play. With this book launch process, you’ve done this a lot before, but how is this specific and how did you work with your fear in this process? Oh,

[00:02:23] Farnoosh: my gosh. Nothing like waking up every morning to document your fears, uh, that go back way back, right? To the beginnings of childhood to then the beer stained hallways of Penn State.

[00:02:36] And then the sexist, demeaning newsrooms in New York City. And of course, I’m writing this book all during the pandemic, where, you know, every 10 minutes I’m crying in the shower. I’ve got two young kids, and I just bought this house in the suburbs. And, uh, It was a lot, but I, I say that like all fearful experiences, fearful endeavors, there’s a, there’s a led in the tunnel and I think it’s a [00:03:00] bright light.

[00:03:00] I think that I got to be really intimate with myself. It was very therapeutic. It was, I, I actually have never, don’t hate me. I’ve never actually got. onto a therapy session for me. I’ve got a therapy session as like for my, with my family, for my son who has ADHD, but I’ve never been on a couch. Don’t hate me.

[00:03:19] LOL. Don’t think less of me. But I know I feel like this book process was therapy for me. Yeah, it was. And I worked with actually a writing coach who was sort of my armchair therapist during this entire process. And the biggest fear I had, honestly, in writing about My life and also the people I love in this book was disappointing them or capturing stories that they remember differently and will end up being confused by my interpretation or how I felt in those moments.

[00:03:55] But I. Led the writing with that in [00:04:00] mind and made sure that it was very honest and maybe even called that out. Like, this is how I remember this moment. And so, when my mom or my dad or my brother read the pages that they understand that this was not meant to be a book that was going to out to them or make them or use them as instruments in creating, you know, just a reaction from readers, but that I really wanted to.

[00:04:26] Be honest about our lived experiences and the daughter of immigrants from Iran, that wasn’t easy for them or, or all of us. And I felt that these stories needed to be told. They were, they were highly related to the theme of fear and. My mom loves it. Uh, she read the book and she loves. It means like it wasn’t a lot of emotions for her.

[00:04:49] She said she cried. She said it was therapeutic for her as well. She laughed. She cried. Yeah. So I feel like you do the hard things because maybe there’s a real reward at the end of it. And I feel very rewarded. [00:05:00] I

[00:05:01] Lily: feel that. In this process for you, like just watching from afar in that, you know, I know you’ve mentioned, I mean, I mentioned you’ve written three other books about money and building wealth and being a breadwinner and, you know, your brain and, and building wealth.

[00:05:17] And this was a much more personal, you know, I had the pleasure of being at your book launch party. Um, a few days ago. And you mentioned like this is a more personal experience and a more personal book. And I’m curious what it was like to step out of the like purely money advice focus and step into like, I have something more to say.

[00:05:42] I think that’s a very main character energy of you. Thank

[00:05:44] Farnoosh: you. I’m 43. 3. So I feel like when am I going to do this? I had to wait, I think, until this stage in my life to go there and share. I had to experience life. I had to experience the ups and the downs and the wins and the losses. Um, and most importantly, I had to [00:06:00] get to a point where I could look at all of that.

[00:06:02] All that material and kind of laugh at myself and not take myself too seriously. Cause nobody likes to read an author who takes herself too seriously. And while this book is about fear, and that’s a very serious topic, I wanted it to be approachable. I wanted it to be a page turner. And so It’s about fear, but it’s also really about how fear is constantly wanting us to look inward and find ourselves over and over and over again.

[00:06:25] And I did that while writing this book. I rediscovered myself while writing this book, and I’ve been hosting my podcast. So money for nine years and guests like you have come on and even the audience, uh, that I have on sometimes and share their money questions with me, they show up very personally for me and for the audience and they go there and they.

[00:06:46] Share details and morsels about their lives. And it’s always so valuable. And I felt it’s my turn. It’s my turn to show who I’ve become, why I’ve become who I am being in my space. As you know, as, as an expert, as [00:07:00] the thought leader, your audience wants to know. What’s your deal? Right? Like, how did you do the things that you’re like?

[00:07:07] How did you create what you’ve created? And, um, and I wanted to tell that story. Money is not just this siloed topic. We are talking about all of the things. When we talk about money, we’re talking about our fears and Transcribed by https: otter. ai Our ambitions, we’re talking about childhood. We’re talking about work and relationships and everything.

[00:07:31] So money is a wonderful window into writing about everything else. And maybe as a younger person, as a younger writer, I didn’t have not just the life experience, but perhaps also. The courage to go there and, and feel like I could do this. I mean, look, I went on the today show on Tuesday wearing a neon yellow skirt.

[00:07:50] I was ready to rumble. And you looked incredible. Barnish 15 years ago, debuting her first book was terrified and it showed this time [00:08:00] I was terrified and it didn’t show.

[00:08:02] Lily: Wait, can we talk about the Meredith Vieira moment that you write about in the book? So, you know, this moment of like, you’re on the, was that your first today show appearance?

[00:08:10] Yes. Okay. So you write about in, I believe the fear of rejection chapter. Is that right?

[00:08:19] Farnoosh: Um, the fear of rejection is chapter one and it take us to this moment on the today show. I’m the, uh, on the one hand, like what an opportunity. Like that’s part was part of the fear was like, I better not screw this up because I knew that if I could just land on my feet and do well, that it could be a launching pad for this career that I wanted as a media go to and television hosts and all those things.

[00:08:45] And so I go on and, and I was fearing so much rejection ahead of that interview. I. Would see everybody else who’d go on the today show, who had that trajectory of becoming that revisited guests, the person they [00:09:00] call on all the time who becomes a household name. And these people were perfect. As far as I was concerned, they were, they looked great.

[00:09:05] They sounded great. They talked in perfect sound bites.

[00:09:08] Lily: They talked to so hard to do. I must say it’s

[00:09:12] Farnoosh: very difficult. It’s a learn skill. Uh, and I thought I got to be like them. I got to show up and just channel my inner Susie Orman and yeah, good luck with that. So I go on and. And despite the fact that I had rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed, and I’d written the book and I’d done them, I know my material, but I was so wrapped up in trying to run away from who I actually was and misinterpreting my fear of rejection as a call to try to be like everybody else when really your fear of rejection is saying just be yourself just because that’s all, you know, because what happens ultimately when we fear rejection from others.

[00:09:54] We ended up becoming someone we’re not and we continually reject ourselves, which is like a [00:10:00] self fulfilling prophecy. That’s not what the fear wants. It’s trying to help you protect something, which is your integrity, your sense of acceptance, your flow. And I had none of that in that in those 4 minutes with Meredith Vieira interviewing me on the book.

[00:10:13] Now, I landed on my feet. Because midway through I did say something I regret and she kind of laughed it off and everybody thought it was like a funny moment, but I felt really disappointed in myself and I started to extrapolate my head like, Oh, my God, this is going to really come to haunt me. I mean, basically audience.

[00:10:35] I told her that. She’s trying to tee me up for like a home run on this, you know, this interview and she was like, so

[00:10:42] Lily: for news, tell me about, you know, why do people your age want to know money advice from you? And she

[00:10:47] Farnoosh: said, and you know, not me, but someone your age. Yeah. And I said, well, because we don’t want someone who’s three, four times our age telling us what to do with

[00:10:55] Lily: our money.

[00:10:56] I was reading that in the book. Uh, and I thought like, true. [00:11:00]

[00:11:02] Farnoosh: I mean. I forgot where I was and who I was talking to

[00:11:07] Lily: and who is watching the today show, which is like probably an older

[00:11:11] Farnoosh: set. Yes. I got some very angry letters from viewers after that one in particular, I remember it was an, it was an older woman.

[00:11:19] She was like, you’re such a brat. Oh yeah. Wow. Yeah. And I was like, wow. Okay. But, um. I remember when I said that and I like your words just escape your mouth and like, Oh my God, this is happening. You’re having an out of body experience. Meredith was very gracious and she started laughing and she was like, excuse me.

[00:11:39] And we kind of became in turn. I bet the ratings killed in that moment. I just remember a voice in my head going, just stick your landing. I had lost all tools at that point, everything I thought she was supposed to do was backfiring. And so I was like, all I got is myself and my old bag of tricks that I brought with me and they’ve got my [00:12:00] names on them.

[00:12:00] And so I just started to have a conversation and I remember it got better and it got better and better. And then I finally finished and. Yet, I was still feeling quite miserable because that’s what happens to all of us. We have maybe a body of work that is wonderful, but there’s that one moment that you mess up or you fail and you think that now you are a failure.

[00:12:25] It’s a definitive moment. And I had a really hard time wrestling with that. But Don’t feel bad for me. I got back on the today show over a hundred times after that moment. And it wasn’t because I was like everybody else, ironically, it was because I think they saw in me. A singularity that they knew would be attractive to a new audience, because like you mentioned, a lot of their audience up until that point may have been the moms, the mothers, the grandmothers, and now they wanted to talk to, you know, the college student or the young professional who has no idea how [00:13:00] to manage her money and doesn’t really see herself represented.

[00:13:02] in the expert community.

[00:13:04] Lily: So I think that this book in the message that you are sharing is super revolutionary. Thank you. Truly, because I’m I’m re you know, it’s so true that we vilified our culture is vilified fear and that the, you know, sort of advice of the day is like, become fearless, you know, to get big, epic stuff done.

[00:13:28] And what you’re saying is like, The literal opposite

[00:13:34] Farnoosh: and I wonder

[00:13:35] Lily: and, and I, I’ll be honest, I. I, I, I like notice my brain has been, you know, sort of socialized in that old way of that different other way of thinking about fear that it’s like bad. And I know even though cognitively I may have this like more generous understanding of fear, I still have this like primal like, no, it’s bad thing happening in my brain.

[00:13:59] [00:14:00] So I want you to explain for me and for everybody listening, especially as we get into talking about dating and fear in a moment. What is the difference between harnessing fear and using it to your advantage and indulging it becoming paralyzed by

[00:14:16] Farnoosh: it? I think that when we become paralyzed by fear, it’s because we don’t remember who’s the adult in the room.

[00:14:26] We are. We are. Fear has arrived, perhaps uninvited, but it’s here. And we mistaken that as like, it’s an intruder. It’s an imposter. It’s trying to attack me as opposed to like, when someone’s at your door and you don’t recognize them, you don’t just go and hide under the covers. You don’t attack them. You go, I’m hi, can I help you?

[00:14:51] Can I see some ID? Can you tell me where you’re coming from and what you want me to, you know what I mean? Like we haven’t have a conversation [00:15:00] and maybe you decide that you tell that person fear to Kindly get off your property or you say come on in Let’s have some coffee because I like what you’re saying because I think it’s important because you’re teaching me something and I want to read learn or learn for the first time These things about me that are so important because I’m at a crossroads in my life, in my financial life, in my relationships, and I need to be able to make that next move knowing exactly who I am and what I want to protect.

[00:15:29] And so no fear is not always a friend. Sometimes it is irrational. Sometimes it is a fallacy. It’s what I talked about on the today show that sometimes fears are just myths, but worth unpacking. Worth having a little bit of a conversation because even in that exploration, although maybe you decide that this is not a fear that I want to honor, you learn so much about yourself.

[00:15:55] And isn’t that what we all want to do more of? Yeah,

[00:15:59] Lily: [00:16:00] absolutely. I think that like coming home to self is something that I’m hearing in you sharing about fear, which is so like, again, revolutionary, this concept, because, um, I, I wonder what you would say, because I’m thinking about myself when I’m in my fear mode, like, let’s say I’m scaling my business or I’m, you know, for, for those listening, they’re dating and fear of, you know, a date going wrong or being rejected.

[00:16:27] throws them or me into like a child version of ourselves, you know, like, like a little version who wasn’t getting what they needed. And you’re saying being paralyzed by fear is not remembering that you’re the adult. Yes. How do you integrate

[00:16:43] Farnoosh: that? Uh, when I’m afraid, which is often, let’s say in my own business as someone who’s running a business and I have podcasts and I have books and I’m a thought leader and I do a lot of content and it’s like, I get afraid usually what I’m trying to, you know, ask for more money.

[00:16:59] Or create [00:17:00] something new and will people want it and dah, dah, dah. And yeah, you know, I get afraid and I think the childish reaction to that fear where you are the child that does not have agency, that doesn’t feel empowered necessarily. You are still bound by the rules set for you that you go, okay, I got to just like drop everything and just keep status quo or stay in my lane or avoid this ambition, ignore this But as the adult, let’s remember that.

[00:17:31] Okay. This fear shows up because maybe it does want you to protect something and it wants you to protect your success. You what you’re afraid of sacrificing really as you’re afraid is maybe your ability to succeed and actually follow through and actually have a positive outcome. Like we’re afraid to ask for more because we’re afraid of the rejection may be on the other side of that.

[00:17:54] And what will that say about us? And Oh no, we have to face that. But here’s the thing. It’s like. As now an [00:18:00] adult with agency and power and ambitions that you can, that you can, uh, fulfill, like you have resources, you have things that you can actually do and put in place to create more security, to kind of lay that fear down a little bit, listen to it.

[00:18:18] Like fear is telling you, you need to protect your sense of success in asking for a raise. That doesn’t mean you don’t do it, it means you go in prepared. It means you do some research. It means you re rehearse how you’re gonna ask for it. Uh, you set the, the stage for more success and it still may not happen, but at least you’ll feel on the other side of that, whether it was a wi a win or a loss, that you did everything you could.

[00:18:42] And you didn’t have your dignity intact and your integrity intact. You would look back and go, I did literally everything I needed to do. And I did it. So usually fear when it shows up in your adult life, and especially at these intersections that are so high stakes [00:19:00] with relationships, career money, it’s not saying.

[00:19:03] Abort. It’s saying, give it a minute. Like, do you need to get more educated to feel more empowered? Like what do you need to secure? Fear shows up because it wants us to protect something of importance, a value, a goal, and a sense of accomplishment. So how can you, to your best ability, Work that in. And again, life is unpredictable.

[00:19:29] Things may still not go your way, but I think we can then walk through life and all of its uncertainty with more confidence and just loving ourselves a lot more as we walk through life and not second guessing ourselves. We’re going, you know what? I have fear and I got some things in place to address that and I will deal with whatever hits me.

[00:19:51] I will be the best version of myself as these things

[00:19:56] Lily: Right. It’s allowing yourself to remember how [00:20:00] resourced you are. I’m hearing.

[00:20:01] Farnoosh: Yes. Yes. And how strategic you are and listen, it’s not inconsequential. You got to where you are. You did some things, right? You have more. We forget because I think this, I run into this a lot with other entrepreneurs.

[00:20:16] Like we don’t in women, especially like we don’t actually give ourselves credit for all the things we would say, Oh, we were just lucky. Oh, it was the good timing. It’s like, no, actually you made right investments. You manage your time. Well, you protected. Certain outcomes as best you could, you know, those are not small things and those are all.

[00:20:39] I, as I call them priceless assets,

[00:20:42] Lily: I and you and we as entrepreneurial women, if we’re still kicking it and wanting to continue, it’s like we didn’t let one month of lower business stop us or make us feel inferior or make us think of ourselves as a failure. Like we kept [00:21:00] going after those low months or whatever, hard launches or you know what

[00:21:03] Farnoosh: I’m saying?

[00:21:04] Like, I mean, I talked about this in the book about. The psychological component to fear and how we sometimes obsess as humans around over these. Losses that might be actually few and far in between, but we think we catastrophize, right? We’re like, oh, this is always going to happen. It’s a, it’s a, actually it’s behavioral science.

[00:21:25] It’s behavioral psychology. We tend to, we have recency bias, which means whatever happened most recently, especially if it was a failure becomes the whole story. Yes. It becomes what your next story is going to look like. It’s not true. So, but it’s good to explore that fear because you’re like, Oh, I get it.

[00:21:40] I’m just being a human, but that doesn’t mean that it’s just sort of where my brain likes to go, but I know better. And

[00:21:49] Lily: I want to talk about dating and it, as it relates to fear, cause I was reading the I was reading the Table of Contents, Varnesh. I was like, this could be a dating book. You know what I’m saying?

[00:21:59] Like [00:22:00] every single, I mean, and I’m sure it is in its own. I can’t wait to finish it. And I’m sure it is in a sense. I know that you’ll mention dating and we’ll talk about that specifically in your experience. But I was reading the titles like, Fear of rejection, fear of loneliness, fear of missing out, fear of exposure, fear of uncertainty, fear of money, fear of failure, feel of endings, fear of losing your freedom.

[00:22:19] All of that is also like dating.

[00:22:22] Farnoosh: Did you know that I wanted so desperately for the subtitle of this book to be a healthy state of panic, a love story.

[00:22:29] Lily: Oh, my God.

[00:22:32] Farnoosh: It would be perfect, but it wasn’t the greatest SEO because, you know, subtitles are quite important. They need to spell out what you’re going to learn in the book.

[00:22:39] They have to be super prescriptive. I didn’t know this. I didn’t want to care about it, but I I trusted my, the smarter people in the room and they are right, but you know, really it’s a love story in so many dimensions. It’s a love story for fear. It’s love for fear. It’s love for yourself. Also the characters in the, in this story, [00:23:00] as you meet my mother and my grandmother and my husband, there’s just this theme of on unconditional love and actually the fear that is so embedded.

[00:23:12] Fear and love, you know, it’s like they’re close cousins, really, because it was, for example, my grandmother’s unwavering love and hopes and ambitions for her children in Iran as the revolution was, was really brewing in the seventies to say, y’all need to leave. And as hard as that was for a mom, To say, go and not just go down the street, like, please leave this country and go somewhere new and start over.

[00:23:40] Trust me, it will be better for you. And I’ll stay here because this is my, I don’t have, this is just not where I am in my life. I wish I could come with you, but it was her love and her fear for her children that Multiply got them to a better place.

[00:23:56] Lily: That is so powerful for nutrition. I’m, I’m so [00:24:00] curious how that awareness shaped you as a kid, like of that, of, of that moment and of that courageous decision that your family was making together.

[00:24:11] Like, was that, I know you, you wrote this book because you have a unique take on fear, right? Like, and I think all of us will benefit from it. I’m curious what it was like for you as a kid. to know that that happened? Was that overwhelming? Was that just like, well, grandma said this and my mom did this, my dad did this?

[00:24:29] You know, what was

[00:24:30] Farnoosh: that like for you? I didn’t know it all when I was a little kid. I think my parents didn’t want me to know it all. I do remember when I was four or five, six years old, my dad and I would take walks after dinner around our condo community and he would say things like, and I’d be skipping and wearing shorts and tank tops.

[00:24:50] Which would not be possible in Iran and I think just the image of me. He was like

[00:24:58] We are free. [00:25:00] You will know this more one day

[00:25:07] please be grateful and Little I didn’t know I was like, yeah sure dad like And I just go to the new kids on the block concert. Like, please, like you don’t need to

[00:25:19] Lily: tell me this another day.

[00:25:21] Farnoosh: Oh, well, congratulations. This is the first podcast I’ve officially been crying on. I’ve been crying all during this.

[00:25:28] Like I cry all the time, you know, I don’t do it on camera, but you did it.

[00:25:33] Lily: No, I thank you for sharing that moment. And of course, like the, the, uh, acknowledgement of freedom and the, the not having it, you know, leads to such a different kind of relationship with fear and freedom. And I think that you bringing that energy and that experience into this book and into this book tour and into your storytelling is just awe inspiring and [00:26:00] also very, um, helpful to.

[00:26:03] Remember that we are free in so many ways and that the fear of fear is not actually that deeply. It doesn’t have to be doesn’t have to stop. It doesn’t have to be something that we’re

[00:26:19] Farnoosh: afraid of anymore. No, it can be really beautiful. And, you know, I didn’t. I did. I had to write this book. I could only write this book now.

[00:26:27] I couldn’t have had the wisdom or the reflection or I’m a mom now. So I know, right? I’ve been married now. So I know I’ve, um, been a woman in this country and have seen freedoms come and go for women. So I know. And that last chapter in the book is about the fear of losing your freedom. And how it’s not about, you know, what will happen if there’s a revolution or a war.

[00:26:54] Um, although I’ve got all those articles bookmarked on my computer because [00:27:00] it’s life is very fragile. But I think that you and I and anyone listening, like our definition of freedom, real, true freedom, personal freedom, autonomy. What is that? That’s going to be different for every single person. And that is going to be because of where we’ve been.

[00:27:16] Been in life and how we’ve walked through life and experiences, but it is a beautiful fear because it is the fear that actually propels us to do the scariest but most important things. And it is the sort of fear that travels down to the generations. My parents got it from their parents, and it’s just been going down through the generations.

[00:27:42] It’s a legacy that you’re building truly at the end of the day, if you’re appreciating the sphere the right in the right ways, it’s, um. It’s it’s great. It’s not just protecting you, but others who come after you.

[00:27:54] Lily: Yeah, I would love to talk a little bit about the collective experience of [00:28:00] fear of losing our freedom specifically around like I just said, you know, we’re free and thinking in the context of like talking about your parents moving here.

[00:28:09] escaping a revolution in Iran, like that’s that, you know, we live under, um, that sort of freedom in this country, both and like Roe v. Wade being overturned and the, the, the fear that people of color experience and black folks experience in this country every single day. And like, that there’s a lot of ways in which.

[00:28:29] people are not free. And, you know, Audre Lorde said, I’m, I, uh, just paraphrasing. I’m not free until others whose shackles are different than my own are free, I believe is the paraphrasing that I’m bumbling. But I’m curious about this, like, what do we do with that fear of losing Freedom or, or living in a place where we don’t have freedom or, or, you know, does that question make sense?

[00:28:59] I don’t even know. I don’t [00:29:00] even know how to ask, but like there’s the micro of like, I’m afraid of being rejected. I’m afraid of being lonely. I’m afraid of missing out in my personal relationships. Then there’s this like macro, like, holy shit, like we’re living in some turbulent fucking times and there are people who are not safe.

[00:29:17] And what do we do with that? Not to put that all on your shoulders, I hate that I just asked you that, but I’m curious what your take is from writing this book.

[00:29:28] Farnoosh: You have to sound the alarm. Yeah. You have to catalyze and you have to mobilize and recognize that sadly, sometimes you have to be the only one who cares more than anybody in the room.

[00:29:38] Like you have to be the one who is the loudest and nobody respects or knows or appreciates your personal freedoms more than you. Just like your money, just like your health. I mean, like people love you and people want the best for you, but you’re you and you’re living your life and. I would imagine that [00:30:00] the level of determination that you have to protect all of these things is higher than anybody because they’re personal to you.

[00:30:06] Like, and that’s okay. I feel like that’s how it should be. I mean, even if it’s just one degree more, like I love for my children and I would throw myself in front of a giant bus to save them. I think any parent would, but they need to also want that for themselves. They want to, they need to have that sense of.

[00:30:24] Fight in themselves for themselves. I want that for my kids. I want them to grow up to know that like protecting their life. I say in the first page of the book, it is a collective responsibility that we have in society to protect every life, but also you have to want for it badly, which means you will take great risks, which means that you will maybe disappoint people in the process.

[00:30:49] It will mean that maybe you’ll have to get very uncomfortable. You might have to leave. You might have to purposely fail because at the other side of that is [00:31:00] your freedom protected. You have to be afraid of losing that so much that you will do what it will take that what you’re personally willing to do.

[00:31:08] And that’s also a different calculus for everybody. Not everyone’s gonna. Have the same measure of, I’ve never been like a picketer or protester, but I will donate.

[00:31:19] Lily: Yeah. I

[00:31:20] Farnoosh: will do my, I’ll do it my way for to protect the freedoms of others. Right. You,

[00:31:24] Lily: uh, did a proceeds from the,

[00:31:27] Farnoosh: from my event. What was it?

[00:31:28] Right. So your

[00:31:29] Lily: event went to Trevor

[00:31:30] Farnoosh: project. Yes. My book party was. A ticketed event. And, um, we donated a thousand dollars to the Trevor project, which is a not for profit that supports and educates and helps LGBTQ individuals, uh, 24 seven all year round. And that I felt would be a nice thing to do. Yeah.

[00:31:52] Lily: I, I was Very moved by that.

[00:31:54] And, and, um, was excited that, um, you were bringing that up and, and [00:32:00] into the conversation. I think from, uh, I think it’s even just like bringing it into the conversation about fear that like, it’s, it’s the collective as well as the individual, um, that, that can move us into action, um, towards positive change, hopefully, you know, I, I think that’s what I’m getting.

[00:32:17] Yeah.

[00:32:17] Farnoosh: And I give an example in that chapter of Ellie joke, who is a single mom. I think she has four kids and in the pandemic she gets divorced. She’s single handedly running this household. She’s living again with her mom and her mom’s one bedroom home in a California and her kids in one bed. She has twins.

[00:32:40] They’re all like very, very little and she cannot find a job. She’s putting all these, you know, she’s applying for every single job, not getting a job. So she gets her stimulus check and then says, you know what? If I’m in this, if I’m still in my mom’s house a year from now, that would be terrifying. And I’m going to use this stimulus check [00:33:00] to get us out of this hole.

[00:33:02] And so she’s smart. She has a lot of experience in sales and marketing and supporting businesses. So she starts to become a thought leader on social media. Starts giving answers to people’s questions and sort of quickly, um, develops a huge online audience. Use her stimulus check to get, you know, um, a webcam and.

[00:33:24] It’s a website I put together and all the things. So now she’s a millionaire. What? And she’s doing very fine. Very well. You can look her up online. Wow. Ellie Talks Money. And in that chapter on the fear of losing your freedom, that is exactly what she was feeling and not just her freedom, but her children’s freedom and basically becoming another statistic of single moms who can’t make it.

[00:33:50] That’s so

[00:33:51] Lily: powerful. And how do you, it was Ellie. How do you know

[00:33:54] Farnoosh: Ellie? D I O P. It’s pronounced jope. She was a guest on my podcast. We [00:34:00] met, we have overlapping friends and she helps really women entrepreneurs start their businesses, get them off the ground, seed funding. And, you know, she’s just an all around inspiration.

[00:34:12] So I want to learn from her about like, I don’t know what you’re eating. I want to know like what you’re wearing. I want to know

[00:34:17] Lily: how did you do that? Yeah. Like that moment of inflection, you know, where like But it

[00:34:22] Farnoosh: was the visualization and that’s not a lot that we know is very powerful, but it was literally seeing her small children, four or five kids in one bed.

[00:34:32] In her mom’s house, her mom is supposed to be retired now and live in her life. And although she’s, I’m sure, pleased to have her grandkids with her, she’s probably like, this wasn’t the plan. The pandemic alone was terrifying. And then add to that, this additional terror of being a single mom for the first time with all of these kids and unemployed.

[00:34:53] She didn’t have all the resources, but she did have, she did have the stimmy. And that stimulus, she knew exactly what to do with [00:35:00] it because fear told her this is it. It’s your moment.

[00:35:03] Lily: Wow. That’s so powerful. I’m curious. Okay. So pivoting to dating specifically for my single badass listeners, I want to talk about fear of rejection, fear of loneliness, fear of exposure.

[00:35:17] I think all three of those are come together to make this soup, hot soup of. Why most people need help in their dating lives, honestly, because dating is so incredibly vulnerable. I like to call it a microcosm of every hope, joy, dream, fear, insecurity, desire that we have as humans. And I think that so many people listening probably resonate with this idea of like, the fear of loneliness, rejection and exposure is keeping them from taking action for some reason.

[00:35:49] So how would you what would you say in terms of like, Harnessing this fear, these fears, and we can go one by one if you, if that’s more helpful, but what, what, what’s coming up for you? [00:36:00]

[00:36:00] Farnoosh: I think that the ways that I’ve been able to harness these fears in the dating world and ultimately, you know, to become being engaged and getting married, I had to be very good at.

[00:36:16] Working through my own loneliness, rejection and fear of exposure that I was looking for external support on these with these fears. I was hoping that someone was going to come and make me feel less lonely. I was hoping to show up and I would feel accepted. I was hoping someone would show up and love me for every more still of who I am and that would resolve.

[00:36:39] My fear that I was looking for someone else to give me that sense of validation and to somehow put that fear away for me. I have to. Reconcile with that fear internally, which means I have to get real good being lonely. I gotta get real good finding acceptance within myself, which is what really the fear of rejection is asking you to [00:37:00] do.

[00:37:00] If your rejection isn’t saying, go look for somebody else to accept you and saying you have a problem with your own acceptance. Wow. You want to work on that. Wow. The fear of exposure. That was a real beast of a chapter. I almost didn’t include it in the book because I was afraid of not being clear enough on what I really wanted that chapter to teach, which is that, look, we live in a culture where we’re told vulnerability 24 seven is the way transparency 24 seven with anyone.

[00:37:32] All the places is the way I don’t live in a world that’s like Kumbaya like that. I got to be smarter and more protective of my truth. So while I do believe in visibility and transparency and honesty, I’m also going to be very discerning about how I show up in the world and what I share and who I share it with because these are all very important things about me and not everyone deserves to know every little thing about you.

[00:37:59] [00:38:00] It just doesn’t make sense.

[00:38:02] Lily: Yeah. Um, I think you go ahead.

[00:38:05] Farnoosh: So in the dating world. I was initially told to not reveal a lot of things about my success, my ambitions on dates and, and I would follow the instructions. It’s okay. This is what I’m supposed to do. But, you know, I don’t have to tell you, like, I never, both first dates never turned into second dates.

[00:38:24] Right. And it was actually when I, I sat with that fear and I said, you know, what’s the worst that can happen? I share who I am and I never meet the Mr. Right because that person just isn’t going to want to be with me because they won’t feel like they’re going to be providing you with anything of substance because they think that only thing that they can provide is money and you know, a house and yeah, I’m like.

[00:38:53] Well, okay, then. Yeah, I’m okay. Going back to the fear of loneliness. I’m okay being by myself. [00:39:00] Yes. And when I made that, when I accepted that, when I agreed upon that, I went on the next day and I said, this is who I am. I’m a producer. I have a big job. I own my apartment. I do invest. I want to start a business.

[00:39:17] I want to write books. I Love to be successful and not everyone will love that and that’s okay. I was like, all right, let’s go back home to my success and then, but then I did meet the right person. Like that person is out there. So there’s almost a part of this story that you have to leave up to there’s a, I don’t know if you talk about this at all, but like there is a little bit of magic sometimes a little bit of like.

[00:39:44] Fairy dust that might play a role in some, you know, I mean, the man that I ended up marrying my husband, Tim, I actually met him when I was 19 in college. And I remember seeing him and being extremely like the gravitational pull to this [00:40:00] man was like, Whoa, what, what is that? And I said to myself, I’m going to marry him.

[00:40:06] Oh, you did not. I

[00:40:07] Lily: did actually said it out loud When you were 19, the first time

[00:40:10] Farnoosh: you saw him. It wasn’t the first time, but it was after a few months of getting to know him, we were in a class together and I was a big theater junkie in college. I used to direct plays and be in plays and I directed a play.

[00:40:22] And, um, he came by himself on a Friday night and watch the whole thing. And I thought, okay, that’s cool. Cause he could be doing a lot of other things. And I think deep down, maybe he felt a similar connection to me, but it wasn’t maybe it’s visceral. And I was like, okay, I’m going to marry him. Like this is not a normal thing.

[00:40:44] Lily: So then

[00:40:45] Farnoosh: what happened? Like what happened? Then we go off on our own ways. Like he was like, you’re ahead of me, graduates. I graduate. But we were. you know, we always have that sort of bond and over the years we kept in touch here and there on AOL instant [00:41:00] messenger. Cause that’s where we are in life. What was your away message?

[00:41:04] Oh, I don’t know, but I know my buddy name was Gnar Foosh, like Gnar Whale, but

[00:41:11] Lily: um, Gnar Foosh. Not like an Australian saying no, Gnar. Gnar

[00:41:16] Farnoosh: Foosh. Gnar. It was a nickname I got in high school. Yeah. We just, I remember we were Chatting one day and it kind of turned into a more phone calls and then phone call.

[00:41:27] And we were at this point in our mid twenties and we went on a date, it was Halloween and that was it. And I just was like, this is me. I’m loving my life. I love making the money. I love being ambitious. And he thought that was so cool. So he stuck around.

[00:41:43] Lily: And he’s a great guy. Got to meet him. Got to meet him the other day.

[00:41:47] I’m thinking of, um, when. My biggest fear ever in my early 20s was being lonely like that’s what I would say like my biggest fear isn’t dying It’s being lonely and I haven’t actually talked about [00:42:00] this on the podcast, but looking back What I was really fearing is what I was making the feeling of loneliness mean about me.

[00:42:08] Yes. Yeah, like it was the interpretation of Feeling lonely means I’m not lovable that if I feel lonely Then there’s something wrong with me and what I’m hearing you say is like really neutralizing the feeling of loneliness or the experience of rejection so that you can have that fear, but it’s not Making you smaller as a person in your own

[00:42:35] Farnoosh: brain, being resolute in your loneliness is one of the strongest places to hang out and to be that person is.

[00:42:42] I want to be that person’s friend. By the way, everybody’s alone and lonely. You could be in a crowded bar and the person who’s like that. The toast of the party who’s having, she’s, or he’s also fighting lonely loneliness. So it’s, it’s a universal, I mean, it’s at this point, it’s an epidemic in our [00:43:00] country.

[00:43:01] We’re so connected and so, so distant. And I think that I would guess that part of why that is, is because we’ve sort of lost our way. We’ve lost a sense of who we are and that confidence to be that person. Um, we want to try to be like everybody else. You want to go where all the cool kids are hanging out and we get there, but it doesn’t feel right.

[00:43:24] And we do feel alone and there’s different kinds of loneliness. There’s, there’s that state of mind, loneliness, and then there’s actual situational loneliness where you’re in a community and nobody is. Maybe purposely reaching out to you or wants you to, you know, engaging with you. My mother, I say she had sort of situational loneliness where she came to this country and was, did not speak the language, did not have a license, did not have an education here, did not have others who spoke her, you know, language and could even share her Middle Eastern background.

[00:43:57] And so on top of everything else, she’s [00:44:00] my mom and she’s new to motherhood and new to marriage and new to America. And so she was always. Lonely and how she worked through that one of the ways was moving through it. Actually, moving through it on Sunday mornings, she would put on her tape cassette player and dance to Persian music by herself in our living room.

[00:44:22] Because for her, what, you know, her fear of loneliness was really yearning for connection to something familiar that would make her feel alive and joyful. And for her, it was her passion for Persian music and Persian dance, and she was fine doing it alone. She didn’t know I was watching. Up on the staircase, I was, but it was her ritual and I think it was her way of working through her loneliness, this art form of Persian dance.

[00:44:50] It just brought her back to home and being in Iran. When she wasn’t alone and when she didn’t feel lonely [00:45:00]

[00:45:00] Lily: that makes me want to cry and

[00:45:02] Farnoosh: we can all do that We all can do something. That’s the takeaway, right? What is there right something that you can do that makes you feel? So connected and even if it’s reflective of something that used to do years

[00:45:14] Lily: ago Yeah for me, it’s like that’s at dance as well And also I think that that when you build this healthy relationship to fear like you’re talking about then you can Reach out for community and connection because the fear of rejection or the fear of exposure is not driving is not deeper than just you being human and having a fear.

[00:45:36] It’s not like, oh, I’m wrong for wanting connection and feeling lonely. And if I’m rejected, that means something about me. I think that this book will really help people. reach out and connect with others as well as themselves in a deeper way, because fear is a part of all of our lives and denying it is not helping us.

[00:45:54] Farnoosh: No. And I always say like, when you’re fearing rejection or you’re fearing loneliness, it’s not maybe [00:46:00] you, right? It could be your environment. It could be. So sometimes it’s, it’s that it’s a healthy fear telling you, you need to go somewhere else.

[00:46:08] Lily: Yeah, for sure. I think that getting moving is, is the homework assignment for everybody after this episode.

[00:46:16] Like what’s one thing that one action step that you can take to move, you know, with your fear in a more healthy way and, and one of those steps may be buying a healthy state of panic for you, listener. Farnoosh, I’m so grateful to have you on the

[00:46:30] Farnoosh: podcast. Thank you so much, Lily. All right.

[00:46:33] Lily: Look at the show notes y’all or the description of this episode for the link to buy a healthy state of panic by Farnoosh Torabi.

[00:46:39] It’s such a good read and I know that it’s going to change your life. Like it’s changing mine and I will talk to y’all next week. Bye.[00:47:00]