Is it possible to stay true to yourself while navigating the world of dating? Absolutely! We’re pulling back the curtain with special guests Ali and Erica from Finding Mr. Height. Lily sits down with the duo to discuss how they decided to start their dating podcast and offers a glimpse into the clues, details, and breadcrumbs that help you figure out if someone is right for you. We also dig into the anxieties that surface in new and long-term relationships, offering strategies for navigating them with confidence and clarity.

You’ll also hear Ali and Erica’s candid thoughts on their least favorite—and most favorite—pieces of dating advice. Plus, Lily explores some uncharted territory, sharing her take on long-term relationships. This episode is packed with humor and practical tips to help you own what you want and build strong relationships.

We get into:

• What inspired Ali and Erica to launch their dating podcast, Finding Mr. Height

• Spotting the subtle clues and signals to determine if someone’s right for you (or not)

• Relationship anxieties—whether you’re just starting out or deep in a long-term commitment

• Finding and building a meaningful relationship that works for you

• Ali and Erica’s top dating tips and the advice they’d rather skip

Links:
Finding Mr. Height podcast
Finding Mr. Height on Instagram @findingmrheight
Erica on Instagram @spericaa
Lily’s appearance on Finding Mr. Height

Show transcript:

[00:00:00] Hey, I’m Lily Womble, former top matchmaker and founder of Date Brazen. After setting up hundreds, I realized that with coaching, women could match themselves better than anyone else ever could. With my unconventional feminist approach, I’ve helped women around the world build courageous and self trust filled love lives.

[00:00:20] And now I’m here to support you. Get ready because I’m about to share the exact steps you need to attract a soul quenching partnership and feel amazing about yourself along the way. This is the Date Brazen Podcast. Hello, gorgeous friends. Welcome to another episode of the Date Brazen podcast. I’m so glad that you’re here because we have two fantastic people that you probably know already.

[00:00:45] On the pod today, we have the hosts of the Finding Mr. Height podcast. podcast, Allie Jackson and Erica Sparrow. And every single week they bring positive and practical dating advice. Uh, and I was on their [00:01:00] podcast a few months back. It was such a good time. They are huge on social on Tik TOK. You probably have seen them giving their Hilarious and heartfelt advice and, and sharing their own dating stories and taking you along with them.

[00:01:16] And their whole thing is like helping you build confidence and staying authentic to your true self in your dating life. So I’m so excited that y’all are here. Welcome. Hello. We’re so pumped to be here. Yeah. Thank you for having us. Absolutely. So, okay, my, I told you this before we hit record, but my plan for this episode is us shooting the shit as dating professionals and talking about what everyone asks us about and what our hot takes are.

[00:01:41] Like, this is just going to be like a behind the scenes conversation. about people who are working in the dating space. I want to know first, like, how did you decide to start this podcast? What began this? It kind of started by accident three years ago. I was like, honestly, like the whole talking about my dating [00:02:00] life and now, and now Erica’s dating life online started by accident also, but a little over three years ago, I was talking about my dating life on Tik TOK on Instagram.

[00:02:08] A friend of mine who I used to co host the show with was like, I think that this would be. A good podcast format. And I was like, huh, I never thought about that. But like, okay, sure. That makes sense. Um, and we did the podcast for a little while and then coming on two years ago now, Erica joined the pod and it’s been amazing.

[00:02:25] I’m co hosting with her and we’ve kind of grown from there. Amazing. What, what’s the finding Mr. Height for people that don’t know, like what’s the theory behind the name? We’re both tall. How tall are we talking? How tall are we talking? Six foot ladies. Give me. I love it. It also was just originally like Allie’s tiktok handle.

[00:02:44] So she was going viral on tiktok. People were loving like the dating recap. So when the show started, it was like, let’s just keep the name finding Mr. Height. That’s where people know her from. And I originally had like my own podcast. That’s how I met Allie. I had her on as a guest and we hit it off and we’re having such a fun time.

[00:02:59] [00:03:00] And then, you know, it was coincidence that my cohost left my show. Her cohost left her show. So we were like, Hey, how about we combine forces? So I was originally shooters. Yeah. Shoot. And then I came on to Finding Mr. Hype. So now we’re here. And you also are a stand up comedian. Yes, I do stand up comedy.

[00:03:15] Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is evident in how you, like, it feels very, like, of course you are. You know what I’m saying? Very natural. Yeah, uh, very funny. And Allie, were you a dating coach? Before all like when did you become a dating coach or working in the dating space from tell me more about four years now.

[00:03:36] Um, my, the majority of what I do is in the corporate space though is like kind of separate from all of this. And I think that that is where Eric and I have this really great balance on the pod is that she is coming from this like, you know, Creative lens and you know, she’s got like all of those that like those kind of aspects and I come from more of an analytical lens sometimes and you know, my corporate speak and, and stuff like that.

[00:03:59] And I think that [00:04:00] like, that’s been so fun in our relationship and on the pod is that we are super different in both of like the backgrounds and what we’re doing with our lives. And also though, have a lot of shared values and how we see dating and talk about it. So it’s been really cool in that sense.

[00:04:15] Allie, what was it like to go viral for talking about your dating life? So weird. It’s very vulnerable. I remember I woke up, so this was in like maybe September 2020, early ish days of TikTok. Not crazy, but like. Oh, you, okay, I’m sorry, I have to pause. What made you say in 2020, I’m going to not only get on, because every, you know, everybody was like getting on to have something to do, but that I’m going to start making content.

[00:04:37] Like so many people, myself included, were like, I didn’t get on until 2022. And you were way up there. Honestly, I was on Instagram already, but I was anonymous at the time on Instagram and was like, not really talking about who I was. I was just kind of talking about like this dating thing, man. Like, like, you know, I was just like out there being like, is anybody else doing this?

[00:04:58] Like this? [00:05:00] Yeah. Um, and then a friend of mine was like, you should get on Tik TOK. And at the time I was like, I’m not a teenager who dances. I don’t understand doing on Tik TOK. And yeah, and then I posted. A few videos and I posted one in particular where I was wearing this like Walmart sleep shirt that had cat heads all over it and was like, my hair was all messy.

[00:05:22] I was about to go to bed and I just posted this thing and I woke up and was like, Oh dear, something has happened. What happened that particular video went viral and it just kind of took off from there. And like Erica said, that’s, that’s how we met is because she and her cohost at the time saw my tick tock or my Instagram video is one of the two.

[00:05:41] And I went on her podcast and I’ve met so many people you included, like, because of. this whole thing because I sat there in my Walmart cat shirt and decided to talk about my dating life. And now I have like so many close friends. It’s so cool. That’s amazing. What about you, Erica? Like, what [00:06:00] is it like for you to talk about your love life, dating life?

[00:06:04] In public. Like, obviously stand ups use this every single day, but like, what was it like to take that to social and, and the podcast and things like that? So I’ve never done exactly what Allie does with like, filming data recaps and doing that directly in like a video format and posting on social, but I was doing that more like, Behind the scenes on a podcast, kind of naturally as you do.

[00:06:27] Um, so I was used to more in my work, like it’s more of a general speak. We’re like, you go on dates and you kind of see different patterns. So you’re like, well, this is happening to me. It must happen to other people. And you find kind of the funny within it was always my lens. So if I like make a joke about something, it’s like, okay, the guy I went on the date with that did that thing.

[00:06:45] We’ll know it’s about him, but nobody else knows. It’s about him. There’s no details given that it’s like, we could find this guy and put him down and be like, this is where he lives. Like, it’s not a witch hunt to find this man. And it’s typically not even things that are [00:07:00] like, or is it what’s the subreddit that you don’t know?

[00:07:06] Yeah. So, but in terms of like, like performing when everybody laughs together, it’s because we’re all relating to the same thing. So through comedy, it’s like, you’ll talk about things and you’ll find like, oh, That’s something that’s relating to everybody. And when I started Shooters, uh, our original format was like, doing dating research.

[00:07:24] So we were challenging ourselves to date more and actually put effort into that part of our lives. Because my co host and I, at the time, were very just work driven. And we were like, so we aren’t in any relationships. We’re also not really trying in that part of our life. So we didn’t really believe the like, Oh, it just happens.

[00:07:40] Cause we’re like, okay. Um, eight years went by and still no boyfriend. And so maybe we should like get on these dating apps. Maybe we should try this dating coaches method. And then we’ll try that dating coaches method. We’ll read this book, that book. Um, so I kind of was like very research heavy at the beginning.

[00:07:56] So it kind of was a combination of both worlds. Like, what do [00:08:00] I find funny? What observations do I have? And then what have I picked up from, I feel like other like dating coaches, uh, you know, therapists, whoever I would find resources from and be like, what do I like from their theories that I’ve tried?

[00:08:12] What have I not liked? And that kind of perfect storm brought me into like the dating podcast world. So it’s own microcosm of, of world. It is the dating podcast world. And I’m just used to like sharing my life in a certain way. It’s, but it’s always a balancing act of like, what do you share? What details do you share?

[00:08:29] Especially because I’ve dealt with like doing a joke that maybe it was about a family member and then they’re like, Hey, I don’t want anything to be spoken out about me and you have to respect that. Okay. Well, I don’t have that joke anymore. So we have to navigate that as well when we’re, especially like in relationships.

[00:08:47] Running things by a partner. Like, Hey, we had a disagreement about this. Is that cool if I kind of bring this up on the show? Do you care? Um, cause we like to share, but it’s also, it’s a balancing act where it’s like, we want to protect our relationships and keep them. [00:09:00] Trying to have successful relationships out here, you know?

[00:09:04] I also think something that you mentioned, Erica, that I think we have in common is that you were talking about how on stage you’re like, Oh, people are relating to this. Okay. Other people are going through this and then kind of exploring that. I think that’s something that I was finding when I was posting my videos about my dating life.

[00:09:20] It’s like in the comments, like, Oh my God, like someone said that to you, that happened to me. What’d you say back and all this stuff. And I think that that’s one of the things that We really think about in our podcast and a lot of it is girl talk and it’s us being like, this should happen to me and then the other person being like, that’s happened to me too.

[00:09:36] What the fuck? Like, you know, and it’s always the thing you never suspect. , give an example. I wanna hear, it’s always a little detail from a story that all of a sudden everybody is like commenting about like in our discord. The thing that that I re, that resonated with me that you told recently, Erica, was when you told the story about the guy years and years ago where you had left that little thing at his place and when you came back it was hidden [00:10:00] and you were Yes.

[00:10:00] What? So that was a sign that other people were probably coming over to his apartment that he didn’t want my little bag that I had left to be seat. Yeah, it wasn’t in his room. He put it in the living room. And I remember just thinking that’s weird when I noticed it, but not pressing about it. And then when other things came to light, I was like, Oh yeah, that was a clear sign.

[00:10:22] Yeah. But I was, you know, 24. I didn’t know. And that story totally resonated with me because I’m like, they’re a bit, man, that really brings me back to like, shitty things that happened that I look back and I’m like, man, like, duh, that guy was not great. Or, you know, like, wow, I can’t believe somebody else kind of went through something like that.

[00:10:38] No, that makes sense. And I think that. A lot of these topics are, are things that people keep to themselves, especially if they are the only single friend in their friend group, you know, or, or what have you like, of course it would feel kind of ice, really isolating to be the only single friend and to have little things happen that you discount [00:11:00] because I don’t have anybody to talk to about this.

[00:11:03] And then you miss certain Inflection points of a new relationship or cues that could lead you to like, uh, a boundary or like a decision. But I think that your podcast, my podcast, like our work in general, I hope the whole goal for me is like helping people feel less alone and helping people like figure this out in an empowered way.

[00:11:22] And I love that you like that, that little breadcrumbs, like, no pay attention to these little pieces to. Figure out who’s right for you and wrong for you or, you know, it’s interesting. I feel like anyone that ends up in a relationship, whether you’re like dating coach influencer or your regular friend over here, everybody goes into dating and kind of sets their own kind of rules and guidelines and what works for them.

[00:11:42] But then I feel like anyone who’s in a relationship, there is some rule or guideline they broke. So then when you’re the single friend dating. And you’ll be like, you know, it’s a little weird that my bag was in the other spot. There’s always other people around you going, well, you know, and then they give you like a [00:12:00] justification and then they give you their example of like, you know, I had this role, but with my now husband, I broke that rule and like, everything’s fine.

[00:12:08] Right. And so a lot of times we are like consuming all this stuff. And then especially with the people that have had success that are close to us are being like, Hey, maybe don’t be so rigid with your kind of rules and regulations. Cause I ended up breaking mine. Turned out great. This was the right person for me.

[00:12:24] You know, I have a lot of thoughts. One of them is, um, that that’s why I really encourage people listening to their friends talk about their dating lives to lead with curiosity and questions like, what do you, what do you, what do you think that means? Or how did that make you feel? Or like, have you, have you asked them about it?

[00:12:42] Like, if you, did you ask him, uh, Erica, like, why is my bag in the other room? Or were you just like, it doesn’t matter. No, later there was something, he had a shelf of like, cards, and one was my card, and it was out. Like, displayed out. And I remember being like, oh, that’s so nice, there’s my card. Like business cards someone gave to him.

[00:12:59] Like a birthday [00:13:00] card. Oh, like, oh, like a card for Thanksgiving. Like, so obviously out of curiosity. I’m like, well, who’s this other card from? It’s out. I didn’t think it was snooping. If you had art on your walls, I would look at the art. So, so I look at the other cards and I’m like, there’s a name from like another girl.

[00:13:17] So I asked him like, oh, who’s so and so that gave you a card for Thanksgiving. And wrote a nice note feels kind of lovey and immediately I was accused of snooping and the conversation was, how could you look through my stuff? And I was like, well, they’re out on the shelf. I didn’t. I don’t really think that counts.

[00:13:33] Oh, no. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Also, like, even if you did think it was snooping, you seem avoidant. Yeah. Yeah, sir. There’s a thing happening here that you’re deflecting on. All right. Yes. Oh, and I was very young. And then what happened? Well, the whole night was then me apologizing to him about looking through his stuff and looking back on dating [00:14:00] that person.

[00:14:01] Anytime there was something like he’d say he was coming to a show of mine, not show up, then I get a text like, how’s your show? And then I would do a little up arrow in the text like, hey, you didn’t answer my last text and like, are you coming? You said you were coming. Then there’d always be this like, what was me or some type of story like, oh, what my roommate had to go to like the ER and then I’d even say, oh, my gosh, is she okay?

[00:14:26] No answer. And there was a clear pattern. Like, if I was ever upset about anything, suddenly the conversation would be about him. Everyone in his life is in the emergency room and there’s no answers. Yeah. Or working in some, suddenly he would be sharing some story from like childhood or. Something and I’d be like, wow, he’s opening up like, and I wouldn’t even realize it.

[00:14:50] And then I’d like leave being like, wait a minute, that conversation started with me being upset. Why do I feel empty inside? Why do I feel like the one who’s right? But I [00:15:00] was so young. I didn’t know. It was the first time I also experienced that with somebody. And I was like, Oh, anytime I’m upset, suddenly things flipped to about him.

[00:15:08] And. All of a sudden I’m feeling bad for him, but I’m not mad anymore. And I was like, wow, what a trick that is. Yeah. But something like that, you don’t know. You don’t know until it happens to you. Well, I think there’s also this thing of like, you know, based on how we were all raised to potentially I’ll speak from the eye, how I was raised to doubt myself and like, think that I was too much all the time.

[00:15:33] You know how that really carries into adult dating or did for me is that’s very I had a very similar story with an ex, um, in my mid twenties, and it was really tough to figure out how to trust myself afterward because I thought like, Oh, I thought I was trusting myself by being in that relationship, but I was always made to be wrong.

[00:15:55] I was always made to have too many feelings and needs [00:16:00] and I stayed anyway. So like, how can I really trust myself? And like, that’s why I think your podcast is so great. Cause it’s normalizing this experience for people. Um, and also hopefully like, I think also helping people just like. Realize how they might be right for wanting what they want and like being who they are.

[00:16:19] You know, that’s what I want for this pod. Yeah. I mean, I, I think back to the experiences, like similar to what Erica is saying in my twenties and I even are even more recent than that, where I felt like I had to change something about myself in order for someone to like me. And I used to think that that was just something you do.

[00:16:37] Like, or things, you know, not like, oh, I’m going to try to clean up my room or stuff, but like, I’m going to be a different type of person as this person doesn’t want. All that I am. And like you said, really about like being too much. And I think that that is tiring after a [00:17:00] long time. And sometimes you don’t even realize it.

[00:17:02] And you’re like, oh, well, all of my friends are getting into these long term relationships and I’m not. I must need to demonstrate something wrong. Like, I must need to change something about myself and be more like them or be different. From who I am, and that just makes you end up dating people that want a different thing than you are.

[00:17:20] Yeah, a lot of times women will ask this question, like, do I have the right to bring this up? And especially if there is no, like, they are my boyfriend or we haven’t had, is this exclusive conversation? And like the scenario I just gave, I remember asking some guy friends, their opinion, like, did this count as snooping?

[00:17:38] And one of my very good friends said. I don’t think that even matters. I think the real question is like, he showed you what type of guy he is, that he has cards from multiple women and publicly on display in his room. So he was like, you know, the answer is he’s seeing multiple women. You asked him, he said he wasn’t, he was only seeing you.

[00:17:56] So already we have a lie. He said, and then on [00:18:00] display. So he was like, who gives a shit if you snooped or not? Like, is this the kind of guy you want to date? And I was like, the reframe of how we looked at that was very eyeopening to me that it was like, Oh, I was concerned. Like, Was this snooping or in many scenarios, did I have the right to bring things up because I wasn’t his girlfriend yet?

[00:18:18] And it’s like, Oh, that’s who cares about that question. Something bothered me. I should address it with whoever I’m dating at whatever stage. I think that’s the difference. There’s this, um, concept that I think I heard from coach Susan. Hi, at first, I don’t know where I heard it first, but I mentioned it in my book of like high quality questions versus low quality questions.

[00:18:39] And a low quality question might be like. Was I snooping? Yes or no? Then if I was snooping, then I was wrong and I’m at fault and I shouldn’t be upset. But if I am, if I wasn’t snooping, then I do get to be upset like that. That’s like, um, any question coming from this place of like self blame automatically is a [00:19:00] lower quality question.

[00:19:01] Higher quality question was like, what do I think is emerging here from this pattern of behavior? You know, like what, what, what’s beneath the surface of this? Like, why might he have all these cards out? You know, like I, It just like asking yourself those higher quality questions, I think gets to higher quality answers that give you more information that you actually need to be in the best relationship.

[00:19:24] Cause even if you were legitimately snooping, like I would never say anyone should ever go through anyone’s phone. I think that’s. Terrible. Yeah. Same. You go through someone’s phone and you discover that they’re cheating on you. I don’t think the answer is, well, because I went through their phone, now I can’t bring it up or be upset.

[00:19:40] Things can be true. You can be very wrong for invading someone’s privacy, and they can be very wrong for doing something that you found while you were doing that. Oh. But the question always, yeah, but the question is always, when people say, I want to look through their phone, I have a suspicion they’re cheating, I always ask them, like, [00:20:00] What makes you want to look through their phone?

[00:20:01] Like that’s such a telling sign that you are inclined to snoop through someone’s stuff, something’s going on your intuition, or there’s been other signs and it’s led you to this point. Or past relationships have scarred you in a way that you are now acting in a way with new relationships that is unfair to the new person.

[00:20:22] It’s like one or the other. I think, I think there’s a third option that I’m very aware of as an anxious lady. Which is I, sometimes it is difficult to regulate one’s anxiety when something is going well, well, I didn’t see that coming

[00:20:43] when is the other shoe going to drop like this is. But yeah, true, because nothing has been good for very long. Right. Yes. Or I, you know, still unlearning the thought, I deserve this. Oh, I don’t [00:21:00] deserve this. Right. And like, I, I don’t deserve that. It feels actually really good. And somebody said to me once about my anxiety, they were like, look at what.

[00:21:08] Like, right on paper, like, what is, what do you know to be true? Erica, in the case of that ex, it was like, well, I know that they have all these cards out and I know, like, what do we see and hear? Not like maybe like, okay, well I asked him and he said no, but like, what do I see and hear and am experiencing?

[00:21:27] And if all of the list is like, I am. They ask me how I’m doing. They proactively support me in my needs. They, you know, uh, respect my boundaries. They plan things. They love me in the way I need and want to be loved. They ask me deeper questions. They respond and pivot when things aren’t going well, right?

[00:21:46] Like if that is what is. Yes. And you’re feeling good. Then that if you’re feeling anxious or if I was feeling anxious, it would be an anxiety regulation. Conversation versus let me just check [00:22:00] every single nook and cranny of this relationship to see if there’s anything out of place, you know, so fascinating because I’m always like, I feel like if anybody snoops on anybody, you’re going to find something you don’t like.

[00:22:10] And it doesn’t mean they’re doing something terribly wrong, but there, there might be some message that they, you know, vented about you about something and you’re not going to like reading that. And that’s going to hurt you because, like, we all vent. We’re all here. Sure. Yeah. Sure. So, uh, the regulation speaks to me, Lily, because I mean, I’ve I deal with that.

[00:22:28] I’m in a fairly new relationship. It’s been like 4 months or so and it is going exceedingly well and happy fun. And I worry about it all the time. Yeah. And I think especially for me and I know that about myself and like, I’ll give an example of this past week. I was dealing with a lot. This past week I had like a fairly decently sized medical scare.

[00:22:51] It turned out to be fine, but like I was just I was going through it and he was awesome and so supportive [00:23:00] and still I was like, is this going to ruin things if I have to deal with something like this is he going to leave because that’s too much for him to deal with even though not literally not one thing he did.

[00:23:13] indicated that that was the case. Prim, your sort of like lizard brain was on fire. Yeah. And I had to do exactly what you said. I had to be like, all right, what do I know to be true? He did this thing. He did this thing. He like, you know, came over, even though it was like highly inconvenient for him. He didn’t say that.

[00:23:30] I just knew that it was, but like all, you know, like all of these things, I had to be like, these are the things that are true. And none of those things Indicate that something’s wrong. Yeah. I think that that’s where like self compassion or like body movement, you’re like, like really going back to, you know, I help my clients create sort of a menu of options when they’re freaking out or anxious.

[00:23:53] And like that menu is something that you can go back to tried and true. When I do these two things, This, this meditation and [00:24:00] this tapping exercise, or when I stretch and when I call my friend or when I do these at like, I will feel better, you know? And it’s, um, earlier today, a friend was like, you need to do a, you need to take a break, close your computer and do like a steam with like peppermint.

[00:24:14] In the water, do like a steam with your face and a towel and just sit down and drink a cup of tea. I was like, okay, what the fuck ever? Like, okay, whatever. And if I didn’t feel like a thousand times better after that, you know, so sometimes it’s these like actually doing the things that, you know, make yourself feel better to re regulate and then come back to like, okay, what next?

[00:24:38] I was going to ask you a question because you’re in how long is your relationship again? Remind me. I’m sorry. I forgot. Seven years turning eight and remind me, are you married? Not married. Got married last year. Yeah. I’m curious since you’re in a much longer relationship than Allie and I have been in when you’re kind of navigating these like anxieties and worries and you’ve been with someone this long and you say you still have those from time to time, especially I [00:25:00] have a friend I feel like is kind of always obsessed with like the next milestone and the next movement and she also is an anxious girly and I kind of have been asking myself the question, like, well, what is she going to do when it’s like, We’re finally here.

[00:25:13] We’re married. And I’m curious, like, what kind of anxieties do you have at this point in your relationship that you deal with? And how do you how do you navigate those? Well, I always have. My parents got divorced, you know, like, and they were divorced when I was in a divorce. Adults. So I was 26 when they got divorced.

[00:25:35] So it felt different than a child might like there’s, there’s research done about like the difference in like childhood divorce versus adult divorce and neither is better or worse. It’s just like different. And so I. Think I was hyper vigilant all the time growing up about my parents relationship. It did not feel useful.

[00:25:55] It felt actually very arduous and, and difficult. And they were [00:26:00] very loving people, like not nothing huge, red flaggy. It just didn’t, you know, a lot of, I think in that relationship. And, uh, so I, as a child was so hyper aware of everything that they did and everything. I mean, I remember asking questions as a child, like, are you going to get a divorce?

[00:26:21] Are you going to get a divorce? I just see, I just felt and saw this, like. Yeah. discord. That hypervigilance has been, I think things can be like, anything can be a light and a shadow. And I think the shadow of my ability to care, my ability to like help people and like support people, that’s the light. And the shadow is this like hypervigilance, emotional labor, seeking for anything that’s wrong.

[00:26:48] And as an adult, even though my relationship with Chris is so fun, we laugh. So hard. Every almost every single day. We, we laugh [00:27:00] every day, whether or not it’s like so hard. Like some days were like laughing our asses off about tick tocks or about a joke that we made. Like a client asked me a couple of months ago, like, is it possible for a relationship to feel like a never ending improv show?

[00:27:14] And Chris and I have both done improv and I can confidently say like, Absolutely. Like we have the best fucking time and we’re, we’re going to couples therapy. We’re like really investing in our future with the caregiving support that the relationship needs to thrive long term. And still I am always. On alert.

[00:27:38] It has gotten so much easier over the years to release the alert, release the hypervigilance, but it’s taken a lot of therapy for me to do that because I, I’ve asked my therapist before, how do you really trust another person wholeheartedly? Period. How do you do that? What was the answer? Because Yeah, what’d you say?

[00:27:56] Her answer was that Her answer [00:28:00] was you kind of can’t, but you can wholeheartedly trust yourself. And that’s like what we’re all in control of. Right. And if I wholeheartedly trust myself and I look at like, what is, I’m like, I am having, I’m so in love. I’m so happy. We’re having the best fucking time. And sometimes I have fear come up that may or may not have anything to do with My partner fear about our relationship that has everything to do with like how I was raised, what I’m healing and Chris, I can share that with Chris and say, Hey, I’m feeling kind of insecure about our relationship for no reason other than I’m feeling kind of tender and he can be like, okay, cool.

[00:28:43] Let’s talk about it. Or, okay, cool. Can I give you a hug? Or, okay, cool. Like, we have this shorthand now where, like, I go to him during the day and I, like, stand beside him and he’s like, you need a hug, don’t you? I was like, yeah. And we’ll, like, hug for a minute and, you know, like, okay, are you okay [00:29:00] now? Do you need anything else?

[00:29:00] I’m like, no, I’m good. But I think that care Is what I needed and I needed to care for myself differently to release that hypervigilance. I’ve never been asked that question. I love it. Well, I think Ali could definitely relate to something you’re saying. I think she was about to say something. Yeah, no, definitely.

[00:29:16] I mean, that I relate to all of that. And like, I, I remember I was sitting Skyline and I were on the couch on Saturday night this past weekend and my like, head was his lap. And I just, like, looked up at him and I said, like, are we going to be okay? And he was like, I think so. Like, yeah. You know, like, it hit, like, him.

[00:29:39] Honestly, my initial reaction was, like, he thinks? And then He should be sure. It’s okay if I don’t. I’m not sure. I have no idea, but why isn’t he sure? Yeah. And then I, like, thought about it for a second. Cause now, cause I’ve, like, like you said, Lily, I’ve done a lot of work on, like, My first reaction is not the [00:30:00] thing, typically.

[00:30:01] So like, I know that that first Like the default. Yeah, that first reaction of like, you think so? That’s not the thing I should say out loud. Like, that’s, that’s not helpful for anyone because that’s not the real thing. He literally was just like, truthfully, who knows if we will be together for the rest of our lives.

[00:30:19] but like in this moment? Yeah. Mm-Hmm. . It’s gonna be okay. Mm-Hmm. . Like that’s what he was like, he was so matter of fact for him that he said that because Mm-Hmm. was like, yeah, like, I think so, yeah. I, before we got married, I freaked out about divorce and I was like, I don’t know how one promises this.

[00:30:40] Mm-Hmm. to another. Um, and just honestly like. Who the fuck knows what’s going to happen in 20 years? Who knows who we’re going to be? Who knows? You know, and a couple things helped me tremendously. Chris and I came to like this understanding. There’s an Esther Perel ism. That’s like modern monogamy is [00:31:00] about promising that we will be together as long as we want to be.

[00:31:03] And that’s a pair of very butchered paraphrasing, but like the idea that like, We’re promising each other forever and we will be together as long as we want to be. I don’t ever want to be in a relationship where I feel like the only thing keeping me here is that sheet of paper. I vow, so here we are.

[00:31:19] Which is something that I heard growing up from family. That was very tough. So we have that like shared knowledge of like, we’ll be together as long as we want to be. And do we want to be together? Yeah. Do we want to be together tomorrow? Yeah. Then let’s fucking go. And then another thing I’ve mentioned it on the podcast before, maybe on another podcast, I don’t remember, but.

[00:31:39] One of my friends, I was sharing this fear of divorce with her. And she was like, Lily, your fear of divorce is rooted in patriarchy. Just like people fearing that not being in a relationship means something about them is rooted in patriarchy. And so if you just like real, like untangled the fear of divorce or untangled the fear of something happening in [00:32:00] the future, like, obviously I want this relationship to last.

[00:32:02] And that’s a fear of like, Oh, what if it shifts or changes, but like the fear of. What would it mean about me if this ended in divorce or whatever? Like, if I release that fear and just say like, okay, well, I’ll deal with whatever comes in my life and we will deal with it and we are going to be happy, period.

[00:32:21] Then I’m so much more free to enjoy my relationship and build this relationship and, and to like, have a fucking great time. Everything you were talking about kind of brought up for me something I think Allie was talking about recently on our show, which is like, The balance between self soothing and relying on your partner and then especially when something is new, but you know, you have the contrast of being in like a long term relationship, especially when we hear all these things like they’re my rock.

[00:32:48] They’re my, you know, person that holds me down. Everything. They completed me. You said that in the in a recent like unpacking that like your person will complete you well. Statement. I know y’all talked [00:33:00] about that, but the rock thing, especially and then like for someone like me, that’s been single a long time.

[00:33:03] I’m kind of more in like the hyper independent stage, but what I’ve found when dating people is like, when I do have those vulnerable moments and I do actually lean on them a little bit or just open up in that way, whether whatever, whether it’s even just like crying at something sad in front of them, like, weirdly, they like that.

[00:33:22] And they feel that brings us closer together and it blows my mind because I kind of have always had this idea like no one wants to be around someone who’s like crying and so needy and like need so much, which I do believe that to be a little true where it’s like, if you always have to have your partner.

[00:33:42] Do everything and solve everything and like, you’re always going to them at some point. They might be a little like, can you handle some stuff on your own? So, I’m curious, like, I don’t know. I feel like I might be able to speak to this more. She’s in a new relationship like this balance. Like, when do I reach out to them versus self [00:34:00] soothe a little something I’m going through?

[00:34:02] Whether it’s a little anxiety or a little, I don’t know, problem about really anything. I mean, that’s definitely something that I think about not daily, but like, often in this new relationship is like, what rises to the magnitude of like, I need support with this. And I think something because in my past, I’ve learned.

[00:34:23] That I need to have a bar where something needs to be important enough to need support. And I think that’s something that I’ve, like, been trying to, like, I’ve been trying to unlearn is that, like, I need to have that lens of, like, is this. to ask for help. And something that I’m trying to do more and something that I think I, Skylar and I do a better job of is like, I just like tell him about everything.

[00:34:52] And it’s not necessarily that I’m like, Oh, I need support about this thing. But it’s like, I’m just telling you what happened in my day. Tell [00:35:00] me about this kind of naturally through the conversation. We’ll get to like, Oh, actually I realize I need to, I do need to vent about this and I do want support for this or this past week.

[00:35:12] Like, you know what? I, I really would really like company tonight. Like I know we did together, but like, I’m feeling a little fragile. Like I would. Yeah. And I found that it talking through that, even just by starting with just Telling him the thing, even if it is a thing that I’m going to end up dealing with myself has been helpful for me.

[00:35:32] You know, it’s interesting. You mentioned like the bar, I think the limit does not exist. You know, like the bar doesn’t exist. Like I have to meet the certain threshold to share. Like that threshold is, is a protective one. It’s like, I don’t want you to think that I’m too much. So I’m going to make a rubric for when I reach out versus not.

[00:35:50] And that can be for anybody. Like I’ve had that with my therapist. Oh, I’m not feeling so bad. She said I could text her. If I was feeling bad, but I’m not feeling [00:36:00] so bad that I need to, I can deal with it. The limit does not exist, right? Like if I just text her, who cares if she thinks like, Oh God, Lily didn’t need to text me.

[00:36:09] Who cares? You were never in control of what other people think ever. So why would I not ask for something that I need for fear that somebody else is going to have a thought about me? True. Or maybe the answer is really just finding the right partner for you because there will be people that are like, I, I don’t want a partner that is reaching out this much about whatever it is.

[00:36:31] Because it’s even like, let’s go basic, basic, just like daily texting. There are some people that love the texting all day and throughout the day and sending memes on social media. And then there’s people that are like, I’m not on social media. I’m really not on my phone. I can’t be texting all day with, like, the type of job that I have.

[00:36:47] And, like, something so small like that can be such a, like, Eh, I can’t be with a person like that. So, I don’t know, maybe it really is just, like, more finding the right person for you. Because I, I think I’m the type of person, if someone kept coming to [00:37:00] me about all of their anxieties, I hit the point, I’m like, You got, you got to handle some of this on your own.

[00:37:06] But it’s also because I’m not the type. To kind of do that myself, so it’s very hard for me to, like, kind of constantly be doing that for someone else. Well, it’s interesting in, in your saying that I hear some, like, even in your saying, like, do I reach out or not? I do think it’s always like a both and for me of, like, Boundaries with the right person, they’ll set, you know, I, I believe you can’t say the wrong thing to the right person.

[00:37:29] And I believe the right person will set their boundaries, right? There are some times where I come to Chris in the middle of the day, you know, he’s working for mom. I’m working for mom. I go to him. I’m like, I really want to talk about this. And he’s like, I’m in deep work. I can’t hold space for you right now.

[00:37:43] And we’ve just developed that language over years of like knowing our needs and recognizing our capacity. And then sometimes he’s like, cool, pull up a chair. Let’s talk about it. And then sometimes I talk about it. And I still want to call a friend because I didn’t, you know, one partner can’t meet all [00:38:00] of your emotional needs.

[00:38:01] And so like, I think it’s a both and for me and for the, like, if you’re afraid, if one is afraid of sharing too much about their anxiety, asking, like, Am I sharing too much about my anxiety? Like, do you feel burdened by this? And, and when I ask Chris that, his answer is generally like, no. And then sometimes he’s like, I know that you’re really struggling with this.

[00:38:22] You’ve ruminated on it for a long time and I wonder if you need to take that to your therapist. Like, he said that too. This is our fifth time talking about this same thing, Lily. It sounds like you need to like, maybe talk to your therapist about, right? Like, like, I think that it’s about building with the right partner.

[00:38:38] You’ll build that shorthand of like the boundaries that, you know, each need, you each need, and that will change and shift. And I think it’s that, like, Building a nimble relationship that is also really supportive can allow for me to have big emotional needs, him to have big emotional needs, and for those needs to get met, whether by each other [00:39:00] or others in our life.

[00:39:02] And I love that you guys have built that trust too, where he can say something like that to you. We’re like person that you’d like been on a few dates with. It’s like, you probably bring that to your therapist. I’d be like, well, fuck right off. Who are you? You know? Yeah, but I’m that person on day three.

[00:39:21] That’s like, bro, we’ve been on three dates. Why am I getting this? Yeah, I think there, there are levels, right? Third date is different than seven, seven, eight years, but yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and I hope that me share, I feel a little vulnerable having shared some details of my relationship. I hope that’s okay. I just, I was like, you don’t have to just ask us questions.

[00:39:45] I was curious. Cause you’re in contrast to us, you’ve been in a very long relationship. So I was like, how was it for you? You know? No, thanks for asking. No, I think it’s good to, I like sharing. It’s just a new facet. It’s funny after over 200 episodes, I think I’ve talked about it all. Turns out [00:40:00] there’s more you can talk about always.

[00:40:01] Oh, and by the way, I also think it would be kind of weird if a new person you were seeing was like, maybe you should talk about that with the therapist. I don’t want to say that that’s what Chris says all the time. It’s just on the rare, on the occasions where I am anxiously ruminating about the same thing for five days straight.

[00:40:16] Makes sense. Out loud. My first question is like, first of all, do you know they have a therapist? Let’s start there. Because if you have no information on that, it can be a qualifying, disqualifying question. Kind of rude to be like, how about you get into therapy? Little rude, little rude up top. But if they love their therapist, I think, I think a fascinating question that I’ve asked my friends when I don’t really know what to say is being like, what is your therapist said about this?

[00:40:39] Vague, open. Do we want to get into that? I don’t know. I like that. Have we brought it to the therapist? Yeah. I have no idea. Yeah. Absolutely. And you’re looking for somebody, I think in new relationship days, you’re looking for somebody who at least has some emotional, uh, skills to regulate, to know [00:41:00] when they are vulnerable, when they’re trauma dumping.

[00:41:03] And not do that. Right. Like, like, you know, I think that there, there’s some levels of like emotional maturity that you got to be looking for as an adult. All right, let’s get into the least favorite dating advice that y’all have heard. What’s your, what’s dating advice that you hate the most? This has evolved for me over the years.

[00:41:20] Currently, I think it is when you know, you know, yeah. And, and there’s a lot that I hate, but, but I think that one is, that one is currently my least favorite because I like the aspect of it of trusting yourself. I like that part. I like the part of, you know, feeling safe and being like, okay, this feels right.

[00:41:40] And I trust myself. And, but I am somebody one who has thought I’ve known in the past and been real wrong. And two, like we were talking about with this anxiety thing, I’m somebody who doesn’t know often, or who is. Yeah. Or, you know, is like, [00:42:00] is it, does it mean something bad if I’m anxious about this relationship?

[00:42:04] Not if it were all the time every day. Yeah. But like, does it mean something bad if I have anxiety sometimes about these things? And I think when I really used to believe when you know, you know, I would then run from that rather than dig into it because I would, well, clearly I’m anxious about this. So I don’t know.

[00:42:26] I think it can also, while it’s maybe meant to build trust in yourself, I think it can actually do the opposite. That’s really interesting. I’m like, there’s so many I don’t like, I’m trying to think. I think my overall general one through my life that I’ve stuck to hating and don’t agree with is probably the, um, it happens when you’re not looking for it.

[00:42:43] It happens when you’re not trying. And that comes partly for myself. I’m like a workaholic. So I’m like, Oh, when I am not trying, I am in work mode and I am not even, you know, putting myself in scenarios that I could meet the person when I’m not trying, like I’m out at a [00:43:00] bar and having fun with my friends.

[00:43:02] And then, or if I do meet people, it’s then through work, which is also messy. So I, I don’t like that saying, ’cause I’m like, I think for a lot of people, our version of not looking for it is like, I’m on the couch chilling, watching tv. Hey. Yeah. Are they walking? Yeah. They’re not, they’re not, they’re not breaking in.

[00:43:18] I think I have a specific one right now, but I’m like, I don’t, I know if that’s weird to get into. I don’t that one either, Erica. And it’s interesting that you bring that one up because people have mentioned that to me. I met Skyline in person. And after being on dating apps for over a very long time, I was on, I was dating on my space when I was 15.

[00:43:38] So. And people have said to me, like, Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Were you meeting up with people at your school who didn’t go to my school? She went to a smaller school. Where were you going? I throw that in there. Oh, I was meeting up with boys at like Coldstone front that I met on my space. How’s that going at the time?

[00:43:54] Terrible. Oh my God. I have so many questions just about free [00:44:00] ice cream and they were paying. Oh my God. 15. I took a guy to my, was it ninth or 10th grade homecoming that I met on my space? Oh my god. That feels so advanced. I was very not cool at my school, so I was examining all other areas. where I could like, got to outsource.

[00:44:23] But that’s also interesting that you were, I’m sorry. I’m, I’m blown away by this because my response to feeling like I was weird and too much and that nobody liked me at school was to retreat. Yeah. Hello Brooklyn. And not to, I was like, why would I set myself up for more rejection by trying another school?

[00:44:44] But you had the opposite. I love the other school play. Sorry. Yeah. I had like, these people don’t know I’m not cool. It’s not that I thought I wasn’t. It’s not that I thought I was cool. That level of 15 year old confidence is so fun. It’s [00:45:00] not quite that I thought I was cool and everyone at my school was wrong.

[00:45:02] It was more so that I thought I could fool the other school and that they, they wouldn’t know that I’m not cool. Oh, okay. Interesting. Okay. Okay. You know, it’s funny. I had a lens for other schools, but you know what mine was is I didn’t have to like look cute at my school. I was like, I could be in my sweatshirt.

[00:45:20] Chillin not trying, because I don’t have to see them every day. But then I show up to the party at the other school, and that’s when I put in effort and I look good. I was like, uh, mine was like a time thing. That I was like, I don’t have to be doing my hair in the morning, I could sleep in, like, I could not care about my appearance because I’m not trying to get any of these guys.

[00:45:37] I will, I will look cute when I go elsewhere. Because that’s where I’m trying to outsource. That’s what I was doing. Wow. Interesting. I was like batting down the hatches. Nobody wants to be your friend. Nobody wants to hang out with you. Like that was me. So I was like, no other school interaction. I will not speak to anyone.

[00:45:56] A youth group at church was different. Were you a sports girl though? Cause Ellie and I played sports [00:46:00] and I feel like that opened me to knowing people from other schools. So I would go hang out with my travel buddies and their friends. And it was like, Very fun to be like, oh, I’m brand new here and I can have a new life here.

[00:46:11] Yes. That’s awesome. I remember like I would have a, I had a senior year, I think I had a free period first period, and I had a couple friends that went to a school that was kind of close to me and I used to, and they weren’t allowed to leave campus that I was, and so I used to go to their school and hang out with them on their campus for some weird reason.

[00:46:29] My God, I got to be like the cool person from the other school. I don’t think anyone actually thought that, but I thought, yeah, there’s no one. I’m sure. Who’s this freak that’s here on her free period. Oh, my, you know, it also is nice. You go to a school and you know, everyone forever. You have, like, the inner workings of all the drama.

[00:46:47] You have, like, little grudges you have against people of, like, someone that did something in 5th grade. You go to a new school. You’re like, I don’t know about any of this. I don’t know about any of the drama. Everyone’s like brand new to you. You’re like. Hey, if they’re nice to me, that’s cool. Like, [00:47:00] that’s it.

[00:47:00] Wow. Which is refreshing. Y’all are blowing my mind. Blowing my mind. Well, we gotta wrap it up. I want to hear best dating advice, favorite dating advice. I think that it, for me, this is directed at my anxious girlies, it is that nobody is thinking about the things that you’re doing as hard as you are thinking about those things.

[00:47:19] Good. Yeah. If I had known that in my twenties, I would have been having a much better time going into dates. Not so worried about what that person sitting across from me was thinking about me. Love that. It’s hard. Cause one that I really like recently I’ve come across, I think more is when you’re in a relationship is that like all relationships are going to have conflict, but it’s about how you solve the conflict games, like successful relationships and relationships that stay together.

[00:47:44] And a saying shrink chick said that I really loved was like, in good relationships, your team and you blame the problem, not the other person. So even when you disagree with your person, you both should be like, we’re mad at this problem that we’re having. We’re not mad with each [00:48:00] other. Yeah, so good. It’s not really dating.

[00:48:03] I love that. I don’t know. That one currently has stuck with me. So I’ll throw that in there. It can be. I love, uh, mine is, you can’t say the wrong thing to the right person. I think that that’s the most similar to yours, Allie, but it’s again, like nobody’s thinking that hard about it. Like you, you, the right person will ask.

[00:48:20] for clarification or like ask you like, what did you mean by that? Or we’ll be like, okay, when you ask a question. Um, so you can’t say the wrong thing to the right person, y’all, everybody listening. I hope you enjoyed this episode where we really got into some. Uncharted territory for me on the pod and go listen to finding Mr.

[00:48:43] Height, the podcast, go follow them on socials. Do you have anything that you want to share with how people can get in touch or anything like how people can go see you in your standup glory, Erika, like give us some. The details, where can we find you? They can find the [00:49:00] podcast anywhere you listen to your pods, finding Mr.

[00:49:01] Hyatt, the podcast, um, and also on our website, finding Mr. Hyatt. com slash podcast. And you can also see there if we’re having any live shows coming up, we’ve been doing some live podcasts, but we have one in Chicago coming up in September on September 26th, but all of our shows are always listed on our website.

[00:49:17] Um, and so you can see if we have any coming up. Yes, I know you’re in New York, so maybe we’ll have you on one of our New York ones. Gotta do another new one. I would love. That would be, that’d be delightful. For my social media, I’m at Sparaka. That’s my handle. Or you could just search me, Erika with a C. My last name is S P E R A, uh, and you can find everything on my website, which is erikasparra.

[00:49:38] com and that’s where I list all my shows. So, yeah. The live shows for the pod and also my standup shows. Thank you for having us. Thanks for coming on. Really grateful for this episode. It was super fun. And y’all, I will talk to you next [00:50:00] week.