166. How to stop panic dating with Brazen Breakthrough client Anna
Anna joins Lily to share her experience in the Brazen Breakthrough (Lily’s proven feminist as fuck group coaching program). In this episode, Anna shares what led her to join the Brazen Breakthrough and how it helped her feel supported, get unstuck, and stop panic dating. This episode is going to be so freaking good!
We’re excited for you to listen to Anna's story. If it resonates and you are listening on the day it airs - October 17th - join Lily for a live free training. In this live free training, Lily will teach you how to be dating app optional, how to create a dating life with more ease, joy, and power, and how to make the right relationship inevitable. You’ll also learn about the Brazen Breakthrough. It’s going to be an amazing time. Find all the links below; we hope to see you there!
Hot-takes from this episode:
How to approach finding a partner in a way that is sustainable for your mental health and move away from panic dating
“You’re for the few and not for the many.”
When you learn the skill of self-advocacy and step deeper into agency in your love life, what you believe is possible is inevitable.
Anna shares how understanding what she wanted in her dating life led to her going on a great date!
Links:
Join Us TONIGHT, October 17th, for the Free Live Training → ✨ Creating a Confident and Joyful-as-fuck Dating Life That Makes the Right Relationship Inevitable ✨
The Brazen Breakthrough
Show transcript:
[00:00:00] Lily: Hello, gorgeous friends. Welcome to another episode of the date brazen podcast. Today, we're talking to my brazen breakthrough client, Anna, who later on shares this. And then I
[00:00:11] Anna: also had a kind of fun thing happen, which is somebody who I was set up with a few years ago by some mutual friends. And we went out a couple of times and I think I was hung up on somebody else.
[00:00:23] I wasn't really feeling it. And then. A few years later, we saw each other at a party and he asked me if I wanted to hang out and we hung out again and he entered into a relationship, I entered into a relationship, didn't hang out and then he saw me recently on Hinge and he texted me and he was like, Hey, I saw you on Hinge, you want to get a coffee?
[00:00:41] So we got a coffee on Saturday. And I was like, actually, uh, well, let's see. I don't know. You know,
[00:00:48] Lily: thank you more, please. Anna, Anna burying the lead. Yeah. This episode is going to be so freaking good. You are going to get a glimpse [00:01:00] into my proven feminist as fuck group coaching program called the Brazen Breakthrough.
[00:01:04] Inside of the Brazen Breakthrough, you are going to learn how to be dating app optional, how to create a dating life full of joy and authentic confidence. You are going to learn how to trust yourself more deeply. So that you know that every dating decision you make is the right one for you. You will no longer be swimming in that overwhelming anxiety and self doubt with this proven process.
[00:01:29] You are going to learn how to create a confident and joyful as fuck dating life that makes the right relationship. inevitable with ease. And Anna's story is just a taste of what you will get, the kind of support, the kind of frameworks that you are going to get inside that will make attracting the right relationship more easeful and more inevitable.
[00:01:50] So I'm so excited for you to listen to Anna's story. And if you listen to Anna's story and you're like, Oh my God. I resonate so hard. This is exactly what I [00:02:00] need. Then you are invited to join us inside of the brazen breakthrough. We are opening the doors to everyone on October 19th, 2023. 3. So if you identify as a high achieving, badass, feminist human who is single and who wants to create a love life that is reflective of the rest of their brilliant life, if you want to make the right relationship inevitable with more ease, then the Brazen Breakthrough is going to change your freaking life, okay?
[00:02:29] It is 12 months of group coaching, 12 months access to my proven step by step Brazen Breakthrough framework and course, and you get 12 months of daily coaching. and community in slack. This program, like you're going to hear from Anna is transformational, is life changing. The love life that you desire is on the other side of you deciding that you get to be supported.
[00:02:53] Your love life matters to your wellbeing. It is worthy of your attention because you want something and you [00:03:00] get to want what you want and you get to find it. With more ease and joy and power and agency. And that's what the Brazen Breakthrough and me are here to help you do. So if you're listening to this on the day that it airs, October 17th, 2023, tonight, 6 p.
[00:03:17] m. Eastern, is my live free training. It is going to be fire. You are going to build community in the chat and get your brain coached off. In this live free training, I'm going to teach you how to be dating app optional, how to create a dating life with more ease and joy and power, how to make the right relationship inevitable.
[00:03:36] You're going to learn about the brazen breakthrough and all those who are registered get early access to the brazen breakthrough. So if you're coming to the training tonight on October 17th, you are going to get an invitation to join us tonight. And if you're listening to this after October 17th, the doors open to everyone on October 19th, 2023, and we close our [00:04:00] doors on October 27th, 2023.
[00:04:03] So if you're listening to this episode within that time period. Go to the description of this episode and look for the link in the description that takes you to the live training and takes you to the Brazen Breakthrough sales page. I can't wait to see you there inside the live training tonight. If you're coming, I can't wait to see you inside the Brazen Breakthrough.
[00:04:22] If you decide to join us, this is an invitation to The most epic season of your love life yet. I can't wait. And now let's get into Anna's experience inside the brazen breakthrough.
[00:04:39] Hey, I'm Lily Ronville, former top matchmaker and founder of date brazen. After setting up hundreds, I realized that with coaching women could match themselves It's better than anyone else ever could with my unconventional feminist approach. I've helped women around the world build courageous and self trust filled love lives.
[00:04:54] And now I'm here to support you. Get ready because I'm about to share the exact steps you need to [00:05:00] attract a soul quenching partnership and feel amazing about yourself along the way. This is the date brazen podcast. Hello, gorgeous friends. Welcome to another episode of the Date Brazen podcast. Today we are joined by an incredible Brazen Breakthrough student and member, Anna.
[00:05:18] And we're going to talk about what it's been like inside the Brazen Breakthrough and what she has learned. And we're going to get into all of it. So, so glad you're here, Anna.
[00:05:29] Anna: Thank you. I'm excited to be here. Thank you.
[00:05:31] Lily: Yeah. Of course. So everybody who's ever been on this podcast, who's ever worked with me has had nerves for various reasons.
[00:05:40] I wonder if that resonates with you.
[00:05:41] Anna: Yes. Nerves. Definitely nerves. This is a new thing for me. I've never, I don't think I've ever been on a podcast. It's also, you know, a vulnerable topic and yeah, those things. So some nerves, but also some excitement, like good
[00:05:54] Lily: nerves. I'm excited. Both hands. Yes. Awesome. So tell me [00:06:00] about what feels important for people to know about you that you're that you want to share before we dive into the dating of it all.
[00:06:06] Anna: I'm Anna. I'm I grew up in California. I am of mixed racial background. So my mother's from Sri Lanka, which is near India and my father's American. So I grew up in sort of a multiracial household. I think that informs my perspective a lot. I'm a doctor. I don't know if I'm a primary care doctor. That's my job.
[00:06:24] That takes up a lot of my. Time and energy, and I really like it. And I think it forms how I talk to people. And I really, I think I've been in a privileged position many reasons, but one of those reasons is I get to talk to people about their lives all the time, which is pretty cool. Cool. So those are things.
[00:06:40] And then I think from the dating perspective, you know, I. Identified as sort of this long time single lady and that's part of my identity. Um, dating is something I came to later in my life, I think. I didn't really start dating until I was about 30, probably. Um, [00:07:00] so, you know, it's been something that I think of as a little bit of my Achilles heel.
[00:07:04] Um, sort of, uh, I feel like I have good relation, you know. Lots of good relationships in my life, whatever, whatever, high quality life and finding a partner has been this like thorn in my side. Yeah. Yes. You know, you've talked about that a lot with a lot of people in the Brazen Breakthrough feel that way.
[00:07:22] It seems to me. Yeah. A lot of your posts and the way that I've interacted with you, you know, I think that's not an uncommon feeling that people have.
[00:07:31] Lily: Correct. Your experience is unique and you're not alone in by. Yeah. Yeah. So tell me about, so dating before, you know, you and I worked together, how was it feeling, what was going on in your brain when you thought about dating?
[00:07:45] Anna: Yeah. A lot of stress around it. I Sort of come from pretty, despite this, like, non traditional ethnic background, I come from a pretty traditional sort of heteronormative family structure, and I've sort of always seen that that's what I [00:08:00] wanted, and I still would like to have a child, and I'm 41, and I went through a process, a lot of Egg freezing.
[00:08:07] I've done a couple of rounds of egg freezing and I'm now in a process of thinking about whether I want to pursue having a child, uh, without being in a partnership and that takes up a lot of my energy. But I think for the last decade, I've been really stressed about finding a partner for the purpose of child bear, you know, for the purpose of building a family.
[00:08:26] Yeah. And that has led to a lot of panic and anxiety. And I think definitely before I joined the Raisin Breakthrough, there was a lot of stress around, you know, if I go out with more people, if I just go on more dates, if I'm on more apps, then eventually something will happen. And I just have to give people a chance and I just have to keep going.
[00:08:46] And I remember the first time I did the, I did the dating detox and I was like, okay, I'm going to do this for one month. And I remember you had to convince me. You were like, Why is this so hard for you? You know, like what, what about this is making you so stressed? [00:09:00] Cause I was like, I can't stop. I can't.
[00:09:03] And then once I did the detox, I was like, Oh my God, this is a huge release of pressure in my life. Like I was under so much duress. I feel like I had. And then I, I said I would do it for like four to six weeks. That was, and then I ended up doing it for several months, like four to five months before I went back on and I needed that.
[00:09:24] I needed to get my head on straight and you know, I was in a relationship for five years that was on and off and on and off and finally ended. You know, about a year and a half ago. And I think I did not take a pause after that. I was like, I'm 40. I gotta go, you know, like more and more and more. And I didn't acknowledge the loss of that relationship.
[00:09:42] Like, that was a very big loss for me. There was grief around that. Yeah, there still is, you know, and I think I was just panic dating. So I've really tried to think about how can I approach finding a partner in a way that's sustainable for my
[00:09:59] Lily: [00:10:00] psyche? Yes. Like
[00:10:01] Anna: that's actually what I think that Raisin Breakthrough has given me.
[00:10:05] This is a lot. There's no quick fix here. And I think how do I approach this in a way? That makes me feel sane, feel empowered, like, not in a panic mode. Does that make sense?
[00:10:16] Lily: Yeah, it makes total sense. And I want to go into like, what do you think, looking at your life holistically, what do you think the impact of panic dating was beyond like frustration and dating?
[00:10:28] What else was.
[00:10:30] Anna: Yeah, I mean, I think just feeling overwhelmed and unhappy and gloom and feeling like sort of low about myself, you know, I'll just go out with anybody who will go out with me. And I'm not too good for anybody. That's also not the
[00:10:43] Lily: right attitude. No, but you know that I'm, I'm all about the pickiness with assets based preferences.
[00:10:49] Like
[00:10:50] Anna: wanting to go out with somebody, being excited about going out with somebody, choosing to want to go out with somebody that, or, you know, meet somebody. However, you know, that makes, I think that's [00:11:00] important. I think also this, you know, there was just this feeling of failure all the time about it, like this, you know, that I'm, and I do think I did a lot of the like sharing about it and making myself the butt of the joke and everybody seeing me as like the person who was always going out with people.
[00:11:15] And I. I've restricted a little bit who I talk to about dating to people who I feel like get my perspective and support my approach, you know, and I think that a little bit of that's like the breakup with the bad dating advice, you know, like, if this is not me, I had to do this this weekend, you know, I go biking with a friend and.
[00:11:33] And I have a very different perspective on dating. And he was like, what are you gonna do? Are you gonna go to more networking events? Are you gonna go? And I was like, right,
[00:11:40] Lily: yo dude, let's project manage this. Yeah,
[00:11:42] Anna: exactly. I was like, I was like, I appreciate support, I appreciate your enthusiasm. I know that this is coming from a place where he wants to help, but this was not, I was like, this is really not helping me right now.
[00:11:54] Right. And I, so I said, you know, can we talk about something else? I, I really can't talk about it. Good. And he changed the stuff, you [00:12:00] know, he was open to that. It was fortunate that we just. Then we talked about his job or whatever. So yeah, that I think that, you know, feeling a little bit empowered to say, I don't need your advice to people is kind
[00:12:10] Lily: of, or a lot empowered.
[00:12:13] I think that this idea of agency I'm hearing where, you know, so many people struggle with the. Panic dating like you're mentioning like literally most people in the brazen breakthrough could are probably listening to this. Also saying like go Anna. Yay. Anna's on the podcast. Yay. Number 1. Number 2. I'm sure there are so many head nods, you know, like.
[00:12:39] But, you know, the feeling of sort of being a caged animal in a, in a dating context of like, I want something, but I don't know how to get it. So let me just like try everything and be exhausted. And that's just the price you pay for a potential partner. And you know, that then leads to maybe before having that boundary, you would have.
[00:12:58] You know, still felt [00:13:00] horrible at your friend's dating advice, but maybe indulge it a little bit more or said like, okay, maybe I do need to create a networking project management plan to meet people when I'm already exhausted, blah, blah, blah, you know? Yeah. And
[00:13:13] Anna: like, Oh, it's my fault. You know, I didn't go to that networking.
[00:13:17] Yes. Or whatever. I mean, I've gone to billions of networking. I know , I know how to do that. But yeah, there's a mental exhaustion of like, let's go to everything. Let's go and let's go about who's for me, a single man at this event. You know, like scope out who could be and right, like, yes, there's some of that that you wanna be looking around and person, you know, we talk about that.
[00:13:35] But I think feeling like that everything you do has to be for the purpose of finding a partner is exhausting and that, you know, Why don't you pick up a hobby that, you know, somebody that you can meet, man, you know, like I do. Grammix is one of my favorite hobbies. I have really good friends. I have a community.
[00:13:53] It's given me a lot. It hasn't given me a partner, you know, but does that mean it's not worth it? No. [00:14:00] It can feel all encompassing that you should be looking all 24
[00:14:04] Lily: seven. Yeah. I'm curious about the moment you decided to join us in the breaks and breakthrough. Like what was that discernment process like for you?
[00:14:12] Anna: I remember, you know, we went to, I went to one of your sort of train or your sessions before and I just felt like it's the approach spoke to me. I mean, I've talked to you about that. I've worked with a dating coach before and that was a lot. I feel like there's a lot of like prescription, like We're going to fix you.
[00:14:31] We're going to fix the way that you approach this and maybe it's that you have to go out of the house looking a certain way or whatever, you know, like all these sort of superficial fixes and that or and you should look for people who fit criteria like they should have a master's degree or like, and these frameworks were not working for me.
[00:14:47] It wasn't. In line with my personal ethics and values of what I wanted for myself and my life, you know, I think the feminist approach, like sort of also I don't anti capitalist approach or like, you know, [00:15:00] accepting the way that capitalism and patriarchy and racism and like fat by anti fat bias, like affects my dating life.
[00:15:09] I think, you know, you talked about those things explicitly and that. comfortable for me. And then, you know, you talked about finding ease and that is really, I remember that moment because I was like, I do not have the ease. Everything feels hard. You know, it feels like, you know, and I can do hard things. I work really hard, right?
[00:15:31] Like I can take on a lot. I'm a capable person and met, you know, like so many of us. And so I felt like this is a problem that if I just work harder, if I push harder, I will solve this problem and it, you kind of like cracked a little bit less, you know, then you crack that open and I'm like, Whoa, I actually, this is not serving me and I need to find another approach that is like not [00:16:00] backbreaking.
[00:16:00] Yeah. So that's sort of what. Brought me to the brazen breakthrough.
[00:16:04] Lily: Yeah. It's so interesting. You say, you know, you're talking about you're a doctor and this idea of if I just work hard enough to because in your professional life, I'm sure that that was the case, right? Like you worked really hard. You met the right people.
[00:16:20] You got mentored by people. You know, I don't, I followed up. Followed all the rules and dating, trying to do dating like that is like having a boss that will never let you ascend anywhere. It's like trying to please this person that's never going to be happy, like trying to hustle for their approval. I always think of dating as like,
[00:16:42] Anna: you know, in so many parts of my life, there was like an input output.
[00:16:45] I put this in and I get this out. And I feel like professionally, that is what has made sense for me. Like, I studied for the exam. I get a good grade on the exam, right? Like, it's this clear equation, you know, even before, like, [00:17:00] I have felt for a decade that dating just is not Doesn't work like that for me.
[00:17:04] And I think the permission that, you know, you've granted me to like say, okay, like, you know, this is not hold up. We don't need to do this anymore. I do feel closer to actually meeting my person, even though I go on a lot less date.
[00:17:20] Lily: Yes. Pausing there. That's one of my favorite hot takes is like. You're for the few, not for the many.
[00:17:27] Can you share more about how that initially, that's a piece of advice that I give inside the brazen breakthrough. I think it's like module, we've added some new modules recently. So I think it's module three now, actually. And it's this concept that if you are uniquely qualified for the right relationship for you, then you should be going on far fewer dates.
[00:17:45] How did that strike you when you first heard it?
[00:17:48] Anna: It does make sense. You know, it made. I think that what's hard is like figuring out who those dates should be with and that's still something that I, you know, it's changing all the time. And I'm trying to figure [00:18:00] that out. Yeah, all the time. Um, but I, it just inherently made sense.
[00:18:04] I mean, I remember the last person I went out with before I joined the brazen breakthrough. And I went on three dates with him and you could have told anybody could have seen from 10 miles away didn't make any sense. And he was a nice person, nothing against him, but we were not a good match. Nothing about us was going to be a good match.
[00:18:20] And I think we both were just sort of like desperately pawing for the next. That's what we hadn't gotten is we both really wanted to find somebody. Yeah. And so it made sense to me 'cause I was just like, God, I've gone on so many dates and it just doesn't seem to be getting me any closer. And just, and my gut made sense and I know also like I am a unique person.
[00:18:42] You know, I'm not Yeah. With everybody. I'm not gonna do everything. I think accepting that as not a weakness, because I think as you know, I'm not thin, I'm pretty tall. I'm not white. I mean, we've talked about these things that I and I'm very educated. So these not over educated. I have
[00:18:59] Lily: a lot of [00:19:00] over. That's so interesting, right?
[00:19:01] This over
[00:19:02] Anna: educated, you know, I felt like for many years, I've carried these things as burdens that make me not, you know, less desirable, less desirable. And I don't know, like, I think there's, there's different, like, I think there's like different frames of. Thought or perspectives, different perspectives on dating, and I think there's some people who see it as a numbers game and keep going every, just the more, the more, the more, and maybe that works.
[00:19:26] If you sort of fit a lot of people, or you kind of fit a mold,
[00:19:30] Lily: or you don't mind going on 5 dates a week or whatever it is, it's okay with
[00:19:35] Anna: you. Um, and that didn't work, but it doesn't work for me. And I think now I'm like, okay, I am for the few. And that's a good thing. I don't, I'm also only interested in a few, you know, it's a mutual.
[00:19:46] Yeah. Yes. That like accepting that and sort of trying to see, you know, and I'm also like, I pretty much am dating only one person at a time, not because like, not out of a commitment necessarily for a long term partner, you know. [00:20:00] But because cognitively, that's the best. I figured out that's the
[00:20:02] Lily: best thing for me.
[00:20:03] Yeah. Wonderful. And I think what you just said, Anna, I figured out what's the best thing for me, or that's the best thing for me. It's like, that is hopefully the permission that everybody in the Raisin Breakthrough feels, which is like, there are tools, there are lessons, there are frameworks, there are spreadsheets, there are step by step checklists that I provide.
[00:20:25] And at the end of the day, my goal is that everybody inside that program trust themselves a lot more and that they know what's best for them. Because I know that that will ultimately lead to attracting the right person, feeling better in your body while you attract the right person. I
[00:20:41] Anna: think this like idea that I trust finally it's taken me this many years, but.
[00:20:46] That I, I know what's best for myself. Like, actually, I've put myself in a, I really, like, I feel like I take good care of myself. I make good decisions about a lot of things. And I've felt for years that I didn't make good decisions about dating, that it was [00:21:00] my fault. And, um, I think that having the permission and the framework that the brazen breakthrough provided.
[00:21:07] To question that and to think, no, actually I do make good decisions that may not be reflected in a husband and two children or whatever, you know, these like markers, but actually I feel really good about the main relationship that I had. I feel pretty good about a lot of it. Like, I feel now in control.
[00:21:26] Like, I can pursue what I want to pursue that. I think it's what I've developed through the program. That's yeah, I was going to change the topic a little bit, but, you know, you say a lot that, like. If we don't believe that we're going to find our person, you believe it for us. And I think that is really, I have leaned on that and I've asked other friends to believe it for, you know, like I, and even other topics, but like, you know, if you believe that I can do that, this is coming for me, that is a helpful thing.
[00:21:55] Because I don't always believe it for myself,
[00:21:58] Lily: which is normal, right? It's [00:22:00] similar to let's put it in a career context, right? If there there's a plenty of conversations about. Women rising in their careers. There's quite a few mentors that you can look to who are like, you can do this. You this will happen for you.
[00:22:15] This is inevitable for you because of X, Y, Z, because I did it or because I just, you know, know in my gut that it will happen for you. And that, like, you're going to be fine. And I write like, there's a plenty of those in. A professional context. Would you agree?
[00:22:29] Anna: Yeah, I've had great mentorship from lots
[00:22:31] Lily: of people.
[00:22:32] Yes. And then in dating this, it's like a different flavor of it because some friends who are in relationships, at least when I was single, and they were in relationships like them telling me like, Oh, it'll just happen. That didn't feel. Encouraging. It was like, you have this thing in your life that I would really like.
[00:22:50] And sometimes they chalk it up to like, Oh, it happens when you least expect it. Or like, it'll just turn around and it'll be there. Stop trying so hard. So [00:23:00] that's my aim with sharing that. Like, I truly believe it. And I have hundreds of people that I could call to mind to. Felt the same way you do who felt like, Oh, like is it sometimes, you know, is it going to happen?
[00:23:14] Even, even when you do this work, your human brain is still going to be a human brain. You're measuring for vulnerability and rejection because you're human. And so I get to be in Brooklyn, like just firmly knowing it's inevitable when you learn this skill of self advocacy. And when you step deeper into your agency, in your love life, it's inevitable.
[00:23:34] Anna: I always need to hear it. It always touches a like a place in my heart, you know, because it doesn't that I'm still learning to believe that I believe it more than I did before I started. But, you know, that deep belief that is hard for me sometimes to believe. And so I then I have to do, you know, we've done what is possible for me to believe it's not impossible for this to happen.
[00:23:56] You know, like, and I have to go
[00:23:57] Lily: through. Yeah, baby steps. Yeah. I [00:24:00] also want to say to you and everybody who resonate with this. Yeah. You don't have to have 100 percent belief that it will happen for it to happen. Just like you don't have to have 100 percent belief that you're going to be a doctor with a thriving practice.
[00:24:17] That you don't have to have that 100% Unshakeable, unwavering belief that it will happen. Sometimes you can have doubt and it still can happen. Yeah. Like making, I think that that is a perfectionistic fantasy that a lot of people have, which is like, if I don't have a perfect belief about this happening, then I am sabotaging my chances or I'm going to turn off people because my thoughts are not positive about this.
[00:24:42] I think that that's like just perfectionism. Yeah.
[00:24:44] Anna: And I, you know, I do like in the professional world, I was told from a very young age that I was, you know, like my career Right. And that's, I was sort of from birth probably told I was supposed to be a doctor and I, you know, so you do it, you, you keep [00:25:00] at it and you don't, not that, I mean, there were a lot of deviations and whatever, whatever we can have a whole other career thing, but, right.
[00:25:06] I don't think I ever fundamentally doubted that I would have a meaningful career, whatever I wanted it to be, because that was sort of, everybody around me believed that, and then I ended up believing it. And I think with dating, because of the way our society, you know, the way our society sees it, I think for women, and I also felt it in my own family, you know, that finding a partner is going to require some major compromise of what you want.
[00:25:30] It's going to require Loss of control of your own like it was mostly seen as in the sun's harsh, but like a necessary evil, you know, like it was
[00:25:39] Lily: like, yeah, you're just going to have to settle. You're just, it's going to have to, you know, and
[00:25:45] Anna: I think for millennia, women in particular have had to do that because of economic necessity and that I haven't had to.
[00:25:52] But I do think some of those old frameworks, you know, they've gone in deep into my psyche. And what [00:26:00]
[00:26:01] Lily: might self compassion say to those deep psyche?
[00:26:05] Anna: I mean, it makes sense that, you know, like there's a lot of survival instinct. It makes sense that that's been that way. It makes sense that that was what was told to me by society and family.
[00:26:17] There's a lot of reason why I believe that. Or, and it's okay. I, you know, I don't know. I think that's what.
[00:26:23] Lily: It's hard and it's normal and I'm moving forward. I'm figuring other things out is what I would offer you. I am. I'm figuring other things out. Yeah. I'm curious, Anna, about what it was like for you to do essence based preferences.
[00:26:38] That's one of the lessons in the Brazen Breakthrough, just for everybody listening, like instead of focusing on a rigid checklist or an open minded nothing, somebody kind with a job. Really defining how you want to feel in the right relationship. What is the essence of what you desired building that love life vocabulary unique to you?
[00:26:56] So what was that like for you? You
[00:26:58] Anna: know, I think we'd started with [00:27:00] thinking about all the prior relationships and that was a painful thing.
[00:27:03] Lily: Not just relation, the relationship reflection guy.
[00:27:06] Anna: Yeah, that was painful in the sense of. I ended up feeling really beaten up by years of online dating, mostly. Um, and that was helpful.
[00:27:16] There was like a grieving period that I started with. And then I think I had sort of, and this came from this feeling that I would need to settle, had been like, anybody who wants to go out with me, I'll go out with them. You know, I'm an open person. I'll go out with anybody. Um, and I want to be open, you know, I'm very open in terms of Religion in terms of profession, and that's okay with me.
[00:27:40] I don't want to stop doing those things. But at the same time, I can't go out with like everybody that's exhausting and was not really leading me anywhere. And so it was easier than I thought to get to those essence based preferences. I actually think when push came to shove, I knew what they were. I just sort of needed a way [00:28:00] to put them out there.
[00:28:02] And then once I wrote them, which really only took, it took me a long time to get to the place to sit down, you know, it was like
[00:28:07] Lily: mulling and I remember, yeah, I was like, Lily, give me a deadline, you know,
[00:28:14] Anna: so I finally, you know, I did come to it. And then once I had them, I was like, oh, oh, I knew this, you know, this was already in me.
[00:28:23] I just was afraid to say it out loud. And then I went through a process of telling a lot of people, you know, I like would tell my friends and I don't know if they really understood, but they sort of said, yeah, this matches what we know of you. What? You know, your values are and I recently re reviewed them cause I sent you my profile and I was like, oh yeah, this all is true.
[00:28:47] It's all still. Yeah. You know, cool. This is who I am. This is what I want. These are the things I value. And like the type of person I'm with and the things, you know, so it wasn't necessarily a [00:29:00] revelatory. In what they were, but it was regulatory in the fact that I could put them down clearly on paper.
[00:29:05] Lily: Yeah, for sure.
[00:29:07] I think that there's 2 groups of people who do essence space preferences. 1 group is similar to you. They know what they want. They just need the permission and the space to like, acknowledge it. Yeah. Like literally the years of panic dating or the years of like. Settling for mediocre first, second, third dates, because you feel like you have to, because if you're not going on dates, then you're not quote trying, right?
[00:29:33] Like stripping away that noise is why we like start with the dating detox, which you did beautifully. And then, you know, allowing your feelings. And then giving yourself permission to want what you want and deepening that self trust is like definitely a big, big portion of brazen breakthrough members. I think the other group have never really interrogated what they want because of patriarchal socialization, shrinking themselves like that.
[00:29:59] They [00:30:00] may not have. Thought about what they want in this way. So I do think that those two groups are welcome in the brazen breakthrough anytime, because this work is about deepening your agency and self trust. I'm curious about the, how to feel anything work. How does that land for you? So like, there's this like caring for your nervous system module that we have.
[00:30:19] And I like to say your results are directly proportionate to how you are willing to feel any feeling. What's that been like for you? Yeah, I
[00:30:28] Anna: mean, I've always felt like I had a lot of feelings and they weren't always the right feelings or I didn't, you know, like they can become overwhelming. Um, and I really like I listened to the episode where you interviewed a person who was sort of focused on highly sensitive people I've identified with.
[00:30:45] For a long time as a highly sensitive person, but I think having a system to manage those feelings has been very helpful. I think I did that exercise with you on like a very early coaching call or even before I joined the Brazen Breakthrough [00:31:00] and I'm leaning on that more. I use that technique and it can be even like very brief sitting for two minutes in the middle of the day being like, okay, I can feel this.
[00:31:11] I, you know, it's okay. I can manage these emotions. You know, I, I do have that refrain of I will do anything that I can feel this, take a moment to feel what I actually am feeling. You know, I mentioned, I'm thinking about going through a process of having a child and that brings up a lot of feelings. Yes. A lot of grief.
[00:31:32] And I am working through like a self-help, you know, book about it. But every time I do one of those exercises, I'm overwhelmed with feelings. And so I lean on this, how to feel anything technique, right? You know, hopefully someday in my life, I'm going to be in a relationship and that like, I'm going to have hard feelings no matter what, about
[00:31:52] Lily: everything, correct.
[00:31:53] In a relationship, out of a relationship, like with a kid, without a kid, hard feelings. We're going to come up, nobody
[00:31:59] Anna: goes through life [00:32:00] without hard feelings. And I, I really do think a key to like, Life is being able to manage your feelings. I mean, I see this in my profession. I see people who are not able to feel their feelings and turn, for example, to substance use or turn to other self destructive coping mechanisms.
[00:32:18] And I think really explicitly calling out tools on how to manage these hard feelings is a life skill that will serve Yeah, like, we'll serve for all of a lifetime and many different
[00:32:32] Lily: areas. I am so glad to hear that that lesson and that module stuck with you or that that it has supported you and that it sounds like it's becoming a little bit of 2nd.
[00:32:44] Nature to like come to in the moment, you know, even briefly and just for context for everybody listening. There's this like nervous system care module. It's like calming your brains freak out basically calming your bodies freak out to really get unstuck because like you're saying, and I think that so many [00:33:00] people are pushing away their hard feelings for fear that they'll be swallowed by them or for fear that the hard feelings mean something about them.
[00:33:08] Right? I. Right. used to have this deep, deep, deep fear of feeling lonely, not because the feeling was actually intolerable, but because my brain was making that feeling mean that I was not going to find somebody or that I was worthless in my love life or all these things. So really the, these lessons of how to feel anything of self compassion of emotional granularity, I hope give people, like you're saying, the vocabulary to describe what they're feeling, the tools to effectively Acknowledge and move through the emotion so as not to get stuck or push it away.
[00:33:41] And I think that that leads to more intimacy with yourself first, and then also more empowered action taking, which is like you seeking out answers to questions your brain is having. Right? Like having the question, when am I going to have a kid? Let me answer that question and like, get more information and get more clarity.
[00:33:59] So would [00:34:00] you mind talk? I know that a lot of people in my community may be thinking about when am I going to have a kid? Am I going to have a kid on my own freezing their eggs? Like it's just in the conversation with single women and single people. So what is that like for you in this discernment process?
[00:34:15] Anna: It's a tough process. I have not discerned yet. I think You know, I started this process of thinking about egg freeze when I was 34 and now I'm 41 and I've done it twice. I think there is some medical comfort I had with it that made that a little bit easier. You know, I was like used to being in a healthcare setting and I sort of understood that and I also just to call out like I had enough money to afford that process.
[00:34:41] It's expensive, this whole thing. Yeah. Um, it's a whole other conversation about like reproductive justice. Just to identify those two as sort of things that made it easier for me. I think what's hard now is I've been considering it for so many years and really putting myself in a position to ultimately make [00:35:00] a decision.
[00:35:01] My therapist was like, you have to decide on what process you're going to have because you've just been sitting for a couple of years and this milieu of will you, won't you, won't you. She's like, I don't care what, you know, just do some, you know, whether it's you talk to people who've done it, or you, so I get in for me.
[00:35:18] Yeah, get in for like, embark on some process rather than just sitting. And so my process was, I bought a self help book. I just needed some framework, but there is more grief there than I. Thought there was, you know, a grief around my life, not necessarily looking like I thought it should quote unquote, and I am hopeful that I, by feeling the feelings that will come to some discernment, you know, that is my hope is like.
[00:35:50] It's maybe I have to tell you later how I get this discernment, but I think I don't question that. I want a child. I sort of question when [00:36:00] and how and I'm trying to also sort of, I don't know if I'm being eloquent, but as a partner to the, like, feeling more, like, assured about my dating life, like, it is going to work out.
[00:36:10] It's going to work out and I sort of feel that way about motherhood. It's going to work out and I can't tell you exactly how or when is it using an egg? Is it using a surrogate? Is it adopting? Is it actually deciding not to have a child? But I think it's going to work out in the end. I think that feeling more assured in my dating life.
[00:36:33] Is correlating to feeling more assured that I'm gonna make the right decision for myself. Yeah,
[00:36:39] Lily: absolutely.
[00:36:40] Anna: But I don't know what that decision is yet. or when?
[00:36:43] Lily: When that time. Totally great that you don't know what the decision is yet. I think that the. There's no expectation of, like, finality here. It's truly why I don't measure success in The Brazen Breakthrough as a relationship, as the, like, gold standard of human [00:37:00] success.
[00:37:00] Because it's, like, relationships are bread and butter as human beings. We need relationships. We want relationships of all kinds. Both hand, I do think that the right romantic relationship is the inevitable bonus of You pursuing what you want. One of my clients at the end of her brazen breakthrough journey said, like, I'm in a place and maybe you can borrow this if it resonates or maybe put it on in a sticky note to look at if it doesn't feel true just yet.
[00:37:28] One of my clients said, I now know that it's possible and that it's happening because I desire it. My desire is evidence that it exists. You know, so I hear this, like, this is a human in progress moment. And your desire gets to be evidence that it exists, both with your motherhood desires and your love life desires.
[00:37:54] And I think the first step, if I could offer a little bit of, you know, maybe a little bit of coaching that you didn't ask for, [00:38:00] Anna, is like, what are your desires and how can you allow, how can you get clearer on them and like, give yourself more permission around them? To then allow the decisions to come from the root of what do I really want instead of is this going to, is this the best choice?
[00:38:17] Is this the best choice? What is this going to happen? Is this what do you want? You know, and like letting that be the center of the conversation instead of other people's noise or. But your own self judgment or whatever.
[00:38:30] Anna: Yeah, I have a sticky note already on my desk and I've written down desire is a compass, which I got actually from a recent New York Times article about making mistakes and following desire.
[00:38:42] And so now I've added desires evidence that it exists. I think that's a similar idea that, like, listening to that desire. It can help direct you a hundred percent. So I've been looking at that a lot recently. It's very similar concept. And I think
[00:38:59] Lily: [00:39:00] you're a beautiful example of a brazen breakthrough client in the process of the brazen breakthrough, right?
[00:39:05] Like I hear that you're taking, have you gone on any dates in the past few months? What have those been
[00:39:10] Anna: like? So I, um, I rejoined hinge a few months ago and I, Yeah, I went on a couple of sort of similar dates to before and then I actually looked through people who had messaged me previously to see because I hadn't used him in a long time.
[00:39:26] And I went on, I went back and I messaged somebody who had messaged me and I sort of thought, oh, I wonder why I didn't message it back. I guess I wasn't in the right brain space. So I messaged him what I thought was like 2 months later. Turns out it was 2 years that that message had been in my head.
[00:39:40] Anyway, all right, and we got to know each other. Um, and it was the 1st person I've liked in a long time who I felt like we actually had a connection sort of something worth writing home about unfortunately that he recently decided that he wasn't in a. Life place to date, [00:40:00] which was painful because I think it was painful for both of us.
[00:40:02] I think it was painful for him to feel like he couldn't pursue me. You know, anyway, there was some hurt there, but it felt a little bit more like the thank you more. Please. Like, I found somebody I connected with right now. It's not the right time for us, but. I don't know what the future holds and there's a person out there who I connected with, which was something I felt for a few months there with like, for a long time of that wasn't ever going to be possible.
[00:40:29] So that was something and I also feel like I have been more clear with more clear about what I want from somebody more clear about what I'm well, you know, like what kind of relationship I want, um, which helped me. Yeah. Participate in that relationship and also has helped me now that it is ending. And then I also had a kind of fun thing happen, which is somebody who I Was set up with a few years ago By some mutual friends and we went out a couple times and I think I was hung up on somebody else I wasn't really feeling it and [00:41:00] then a few years later We saw each other at a party and he asked me if I wanted to hang out and we hung out again And he entered into a relationship, I entered into a relationship, didn't ring out, and then he saw me recently on Hinge, and he texted me, and he was like, hey, I saw you on Hinge, you want to get a coffee?
[00:41:16] So we got a coffee on Saturday, and I was like, actually, uh, well, let's see. I don't know, you know? Thank you.
[00:41:24] Lily: More please, Anna. Burying the lead. We're going to bring this moment up to the beginning of the episode. I feel this is very exciting. Very excited. Did you do your date feedback? Are you finding that that tool helps you?
[00:41:40] No. Okay. I did it. I forgot. I did it on a couple of others.
[00:41:44] Anna: I'll
[00:41:47] Lily: do it now and then post. Post your thoughts in Slack and I'll give you like, you can post like questions afterwards, like whatever, like the date feedback system is something I recommend. You don't have to do it perfectly, everybody. You don't have to do it all [00:42:00] the time.
[00:42:00] And if it's helpful, use it. It's so good to building like your trust with your intuition. So good with like planning next steps to get out of overwhelm, to get out of what do I do next? What is the right step? Especially when things are going well, your brain freaks out. Yeah. So it's good to have a plan.
[00:42:18] Anna: Yeah. I okay. I will do that. I think that would be helpful because I am struggling with like, okay, it was clear that that day was a success and we said we wanted to hang out here. Like what's the next step?
[00:42:28] Lily: Yeah. Have you heard from him again?
[00:42:30] Anna: Yes. We messaged that day and Like the Phillies are in the post season go Phillies.
[00:42:36] And so I live in Philadelphia, so that's a big thing. So we talked about that. Anyway, that was last night. We won, um, we can delete all this from the podcast. Nobody cares about baseball, but it was a thing that, you know, yes, we've been in contact and we have a lot of mutual friends and he asked me out at a party a couple of, like, he's always been above board with me, you know, and.
[00:42:58] Not really left me questioning what [00:43:00] was going on.
[00:43:00] Lily: Cool. Thank you more, please.
[00:43:02] Anna: Yes. Thank you more, please. Definitely. Thank you more, please
[00:43:05] Lily: That's exciting Anna. Okay, so I think that this is such a cool Wonderful episode because you are holding the both and right the both end of so many different pieces of this puzzle which is like you've done so much work and really like Allowing yourself to be supported by joining raise a breakthrough and not relying on like friends who are giving you like, very conflicting dating advice.
[00:43:29] You're like coming in to get supported in an aligned way with your values. Yeah, that's
[00:43:34] Anna: very important. Well, I think like, this is aligned with my values and it's so clear. It's very important to me that this perspective. This is like, there's a million ways to live life, and dating is a microcosm of your values.
[00:43:46] You know, like a dating perspective that's not about me changing the way I dress, that's not about me changing the way that I look, that, you know, wearing more or less makeup or whatever, all these superficial things that to me have just never made any sense. But [00:44:00] really thinking about who do I really want to be with?
[00:44:02] How do I want to feel dating from a way that like supports women and supports all types of women, you know, all body types, all racial backgrounds. Like that perspective has been very important for me. And so I've bought into your perspective, you know, and I, I had to, like, I bought in from the beginning this, I felt it aligned with the way I want to live my life in many different
[00:44:23] Lily: ways.
[00:44:24] Cool. Cool. Thank you more please. So holding that, thank you for that affirmation. It makes me so excited because that's why I do what I do, you know, to hopefully connect. When I was quitting matchmaking and like sitting in my tiny little Astoria, like 750 a month room in an apartment with other people, I was imagining the kind of person who would want To be a part of this movement that I had been dreaming up and I would hear questions like feminist.
[00:44:57] You want to be a feminist dating coach? Like [00:45:00] people just want to find a relationship. That's why they hire matchmakers. Like, why would you want to do this? And I was just like, continually being like, I have this feeling. I have this vision for this type of person who, you know, I would really resonate with who resonates with me, and we get to like co create the coolest, most freedom filled dating life possible.
[00:45:18] And so like you coming and sharing that is such an affirmation and such a gift to me. So thank you. And six years later, and also the both end of like. Seeking discernment around family planning and holding like complex biological clock feelings and thoughts. And what is the best next step for me? Like holding that complexity and allowing it instead of being like, everything's good or everything's bad.
[00:45:44] It's like you're holding the both and and really, I hear stepping into your power and all of this and then the both end of like, Here are the thank you more please moments to like, you are, and I'm going to reflect it right back to you are receiving evidence that your desire is [00:46:00] evidence that it exists.
[00:46:01] Uh, last question, what would you say to somebody who is discerning whether or not brazen breakthrough is right for them? And I think.
[00:46:09] Anna: Listen to the podcast. You put yourself out there like what you see is what you get. This is like that, you know, I think this does this worldview and this approach to dating fundamentally make sense to you, you know, does it make sense to you in your core, you know, all the things you said about the way that dating apps weren't working, all those things, those that I was like, Oh, my gosh, someone is giving voice to all these things that I know in my heart, but from years of experience.
[00:46:36] So if that Resonates with you. I think then take the leap. I mean, that's what I think people are going to know that that's what like that they either are on board with this perspective or they're not. And if you're on board with this perspective, you know, the brazen breaks it will give you the framework and tools to delve a little bit deeper into that and to feel like you're in a community that shares those values.
[00:46:58] And I think that's very [00:47:00] important. Oh, can I give a shout out to my accountability partner? Yes. Summer, you don't have to tell me. No, it's great. We like meet every couple of weeks. She's helped me in accountable to doing a lot of the, like the joy filled summer exercises.
[00:47:16] Lily: We did a summer dating challenge, everybody, just so you know, it was fabulous.
[00:47:20] It
[00:47:20] Anna: really. Like the monthly reflections and, uh, identifying my, my winning results. And I don't think I would have done that without her kind of scheduling the zooms and sitting down with me for an hour. And we just like, we would set a timer and do it in five minute increments. And now. I feel like I have like a new friend who, you know, we live in different cities and we have different jobs and perspectives and she's had a lot of success.
[00:47:48] I think she has a new a new boo that she like is really into
[00:47:52] Lily: and thank you more. Please.
[00:47:54] Anna: Yeah. So sharing that, you know, with her, and I think having that, that [00:48:00] accountability has also been another. Very useful part of the reason because I think otherwise I could have become disengaged over the summer and like having her really helped, you know, helped my participation and push me
[00:48:13] Lily: forward.
[00:48:14] Yeah, I'm so glad and I know that she'll probably be listening and be delighted that you shouted her out and I love that we've added the component of like the connections tab and slack to really help. Brazen Breakthrough members get to know each other and like, make friends. There are in person meetups happening all the time.
[00:48:30] There are friendships being built, accountability partnerships being built, and it's really exciting to see that community blossom and grow like I knew it could and hoped it would. And just so you know, I'll tell you more off mic, but like we are adding such exciting stuff to the Brazen Breakthrough based directly on.
[00:48:50] Exactly what you loved about the summer dating challenge. We're adding baking in even more goodness into the brace and break through to keep to make even more support happen. [00:49:00] Um, so I'm very excited about that. And thank you so much for being on the podcast. Thank you for sharing your experience and your wisdom.
[00:49:06] You have it. And I am grateful for it. And I am loving witnessing you in in this journey. And I appreciate it. I'm so grateful to be your dating coach and, uh, there are a few months like left in the brazen breakthrough. So let's go. Yeah.
[00:49:21] Anna: Thank you for having me. It's been really nice to have the opportunity to reflect on everything I've done so far.
[00:49:27] So it's a pleasure and I look forward, I don't want it to end.
[00:49:33] Lily: Well, I am so excited to have you in there. And if you want to join the brazen breakthrough, you can join us at the link in the description of this episode. And Anna, thank you so much for coming on the pod. Bye. Thanks.
[00:49:45] Anna: Have a good afternoon.
[00:49:48] Lily: Oh my God. That conversation was. So fun and so good. If you listen to our conversation and you thought, Oh my God, this is for me.
[00:49:56] I want this kind of support in my love life. I want [00:50:00] this kind of clear path forward. I wanted accountability buddy inside the brazen breakthrough. If you want to release all of that heaviness and panic dating and you want to step into the most confident, joyful, easeful season of your love life to make the right relationship inevitable, then the brazen breakthrough.
[00:50:17] is opening up very, very, very soon. If you're coming to my live training tonight on October 17th, 2023, we open the doors to all registrants tonight. And if you're listening to this after October 17th, we open our doors to everyone. Every feminist, badass, high achieving human who resonates with my approach, who wants to make the right relationship inevitable, we open up on October 19th and we close our doors on October 27th.
[00:50:43] So if you have been listening or lurking around for a while hearing about the Brazen Breakthrough, this is your invitation to take action for yourself, for your desires in a way that will propel you forward. I can't wait to see you inside the Brazen [00:51:00] Breakthrough and I will talk to you soon.