Are you afraid that raising your standards means you’ll be alone forever?

Today on The Late Bloomer Show, I’m coaching Marissa, who stayed long after she knew her relationships were over—because she thought starting from scratch would be worse than settling.

In this episode, we dig into:

✨ Why we shrink our needs to keep relationships

✨ The guilt that keeps us stuck for years

✨ How to believe what you want in love actually exists

✨ The exact shifts helping Marissa trust herself and ask for more

If you’ve ever worried you’re “asking for too much,” this conversation will help you see your love life—and your worth—in a whole new way.

Work with Lily:

🔗 Learn about her signature program, Main Character Dating: datebrazen.com/waitlist

Get the book, “Thank You More Please”: datebrazen.com/book

💻 Learn how to work with Lily: datebrazen.com

Let’s connect:
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📺 YouTube Channel

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Show transcript:

Lily (00:00)

Hey gorgeous friends, welcome to another episode of the Late Bloomer Show. I am so glad that you’re here. Today I’m doing a live coaching session. I just got off it actually, and it was such a fire. Marissa and I went so deep into her shrinking her needs, why that is. Something that really struck me in her application was when she said,

“I’ve had three past relationships where I’ve stayed long after I knew things were over. I wanna break that pattern and find an amazing partner.” And so we get into how to break a pattern that’s been around for a while, especially if you have an underlying belief that you are unworthy of what you want. You’re definitely gonna wanna listen to this entire episode. It is full of gems and a homework assignment at the end for Marissa that I know will help you too—

in your love life, to magnetize the best dates of your life. Even if you feel like a late bloomer, even if you don’t know how to get over a past relationship, even if you have found yourself in the same pattern again and again and again, it’s not too late. You can get what you want, and let this conversation be the kickstart that you need. Let’s get into the episode.

Lily (01:49)

Hi, Marissa.

Hello, I’m so excited for this. How are you feeling about this?

Marissa (01:55)

I’m very excited. I’ve been counting down the hours and days, telling all my friends about this. So very excited. I’m known as the one in the friend group that always has a lot of exciting dating stories, so excited to be on the podcast with you.

Lily (02:02)

Okay.

Okay, well, we’re gonna get into all of it. I’m wondering, I ask everybody before we start, what is a brag? So something that you wanna celebrate, and what’s an intention for this session?

Marissa (02:20)

Wow. I guess a brag would be, I guess just in general, I picked up my life and moved to Spain about two years ago. So my dating life has changed a lot. Canada to Spain, which has been interesting. And I think an intention would be to just be present in this moment with you and come away with some takeaways that I can actually action after today. Yeah.

Lily (02:46)

Yeah, cool.

I love taking notes throughout, and I’ve already taken some notes from your application, but in your application you shared, “Recently broke up with my boyfriend and I’m having trouble moving on. I’m realizing there will be great people out there, maybe even better than I had. I feel like my new bar is so high, I’ll be alone forever. Would love to learn how to let go.” How are you feeling? Like, does that still resonate?

Marissa (02:50)

Perfect.

Mm-hmm.

Wow. Yeah.

Wow. So this is now a couple months later. I would say bits of this still resonate. I think it’s one of those things that I think when a breakup first happens, not only is it an emotional change on like a psychological level, but also just like not having someone and feeling that sense of starting from scratch.

But I think I’ve come a little way in the sense that I think I’ve gotten back the faith that there’s no way there’s millions of people out there and I’m going to be alone forever. So I think that mentality has shifted at least slightly. Yes. Yeah.

Lily (03:47)

Okay.

Yeah, what do you attribute that to?

Marissa (03:53)

I think it’s been marinating in the breakup as hard as that is. It just took a lot longer than I thought. I think I often feel this sense of having to rush through feelings to get to the next person, to the next date. But I just felt really low for a long time and just allowed myself to actually just feel that fully. But it was an ongoing process with myself.

Lily (04:16)

Mm.

Marissa (04:18)

To really feel okay to be not okay for longer than I hoped. It kept being like, okay, when is it gonna feel better? You know?

Lily (04:25)

Yeah, yeah. And that—

I would imagine a lot of self-judgment with the like, “When is it going to feel better? I don’t like feeling this way,” which makes total sense.

Marissa (04:28)

Yeah, because I think you feel like yourself. Like you feel like your light has been dimmed. Yeah.

Lily (04:36)

And I’m gonna ask you to speak from the “I.” So when you say you feel like, I would invite you to own your story, like go for it.

Marissa (04:41)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Like I consider myself a pretty bubbly, outgoing, full-of-life person. And I really felt like the dim, dark version that was covered by gloom. You know, like I had friends visiting and I was trying to pretend like I didn’t feel the way that I felt. I definitely felt almost guilt because it was like, why can’t I be the same person I was before this breakup?

Why am I allowing it to affect me so much? Just a lot of guilt, a lot of self-guilt. Yeah, and I just wanted to go forward to the good part. How do I get that feeling back of being myself?

Lily (05:20)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, of course you wanted to fast forward. Not feeling good feels good, and not feeling good doesn’t feel good. I don’t want it.

Marissa (05:37)

It doesn’t.

It doesn’t. It doesn’t. And I think I’ve forgotten life before, because I think like you forget about all the fun sometimes that you have when you’re dating and then suddenly you find someone and then you’re in a relationship. And so you forget the fun that also is dating. So I think the initial shock is just like, I’m starting from scratch. I’m never going to find someone that’s now set this new bar and navigating that.

I think loss also, because I think I try to victimize myself a little bit in the sense that—will this… Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Lily (06:10)

And I’m just gonna say, like, reminder—speak from the “I.”

Why does that matter? Because when I’m speaking too, I’ve done this so many times, human beings are so like, we wanna be in a collective. And human beings, when talking about something so vulnerable, have the tendency to displace to the we, you, how we all, you know, how you feel this way and…

Marissa (06:21)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Lily (06:37)

It’s really normal to do that. And it’s not actually—it’s not a huge problem. I just think there’s an opportunity in even your language that you’re using to describe your story and your feelings that you can really ground in the real—yeah, exactly. Does that make sense?

Marissa (06:46)

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of own it. Yeah. Yeah.

100% because I think working in a very corporate environment, we’re not used to taking credit for things. And so I think I’m so used to being like, “Well, we all think…” and it’s like this collective we rather than like, I feel. So I like that you called that out because it’s not something that I’m conscious of. So I will actively—I might need a couple more reminders. But maybe that’s part of my homework, you know. Yeah.

Lily (07:04)

Yeah.

Yes!

Yes!

Well, and I don’t want to interrupt your share, because I hear your intention and there’s nothing wrong. There’s no pathological reason why—don’t do we because it’s warped. But I think that there’s an opportunity here for you to really like—if we’re talking about the macro being reflected—if we are talking about you and I, talking about the macro being reflected in the micro, there’s an opportunity here for you to be the main character of your story.

Marissa (07:27)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, love that. Yes. Yes.

Lily (07:48)

In this moment, by grounding in the “I,” grounding in “I” statements, because you said in the—like, is there anything else we need to know about you? You said, “I’ve had three past relationships where I’ve stayed long after I knew things were over. I want to break the pattern and find an amazing partner.” And I see a potential little glimmer of making yourself smaller. I may be wrong.

Marissa (08:17)

Yeah, I have a hard time owning things. I think myself and the “I” and expressing through feelings, through hard conversations, things like that. So I think that’s something that’s really beautiful that you called out that I think can help me kind of own my story and not kind of muddle it down a little bit. So I love that. Yeah.

Lily (08:35)

Yeah, no need to be palatable or be corporate. Like, I get that it’s been sort of drilled into you in a couple different environments. But I do think the way we do one thing is the way we do everything. The way I do one thing is the way I do everything. And so if I am struggling—if you are struggling—with owning how you feel, taking up space with your story, your needs, your asks, then of course being in relationships…

Marissa (08:39)

Yes.

Yeah, ingrained. Yeah.

It ripples in other things.

Yes. Amen. Amen. Yeah, it’s usually a common thread. Yeah. Mic drop. Yeah.

Lily (09:02)

Where you were met fully would be a struggle.

Okay, so let’s get into—and look, people might be listening to this and they’re like, Lily, you’re reading way too much into this one “we” versus “I” thing. And if you think that, totally fine. I’m just curious about—in these sessions, I’m always looking for the thread that resonates that we can then follow to create a more empowered love life and love life experience. So let’s get into those three past relationships where you…

Marissa (09:18)

Nada.

Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Lily (09:40)

Quote, stayed long after I knew things were over. Tell me about what was going on there.

Marissa (09:43)

Yeah. Okay, well—first, first relationship. And again, I don’t know if this is a late-bloomer thing, but my first relationship was when I was 25.

Previous to that, I had had, you know, maybe even a little bit, maybe even a little bit, but at the same time, not really, because I just wasn’t in that headspace. I think compared to a lot of my friends, they had found relationships in high school, early university. I wasn’t necessarily not seeking a relationship. I was very much of the thought of if it’s meant to happen…

Lily (09:57)

Mm-hmm. Did it feel like you were a late bloomer? Like, was it like you were judging yourself for it being so late at 25?

Marissa (10:25)

It’ll all happen. Meanwhile, I’m living my life. Meanwhile, I’m going out with friends or going to parties. Organically through meeting people, if it ends up being that I meet someone that I connect with and it ends up being a relationship, sure. But I was never actively looking for it. And at that time, my first relationship—apps didn’t exist. So I remember when Tinder first came out. And I remember running out of matches when I first started.

This is dating back quite some time, but when I met my first boyfriend, it was actually at the bar. I remember locking eyes and being like, This boy is so cute and I’m going to go up to him and just tell him that. And so that’s exactly what I did—a little bit of liquid courage, friends, there’s a little bit of that involved. But I remember beelining to him, talking the entire night, and it was just that instant kind of click for me. And I remember…

Lily (11:05)

Oh my god.

Yeah.

Marissa (11:20)

Very head over heels, very quickly for him. Like, I think things progressed very quickly. I really liked him. He called me, which was like—at that point, texting was very normal. So the fact that he called me, asked me out, there was intention. And that relationship lasted five years, which—having been in no relationship to being in a relationship for five, especially 25 to 30, there’s a lot that happens. Like I remember there were a lot of career shifts, you’re graduating from university—like there’s a lot of big life milestones that also happened during that period.

But I remember being of the mentality of like, This is going to be the person that I’m going to marry. Like I was convinced. I was just so obsessed with him and everything was so great. And that spark and that feeling lasted for all three years of the relationship. I didn’t feel like it faded before that. And so I think that surprised a lot of people when I would talk about that because they’re like, You know, the honeymoon typically phases out in the first year. But I didn’t have that experience. I was really confident this was going to be the person I would marry.

And then slowly over time, three years in, I started to suffocate a little bit, like I was losing who I was. And I don’t remember exactly the moment—I just remember this overwhelming feeling of something shifted, something’s changed, where I think I was growing and changing in different ways through different life experiences. And I just was wondering like, Is this it? Like I remember thinking, I love him so much, I care about him so much, and I would marry him before I would break up with him. Like I remember thinking, It’s all or nothing.

And I think this came from growing up with parents who were married for a very, very long time. But there was this sense of—they were just staying together to stay together, but I never saw active love between them, if that makes sense. No showing of like, you know, holding hands, going on dates with each other, no kissing. So like I grew up seeing two friends, very close friends, that were living together. And so that was my idea of what a relationship should look like—like your best friends, you’re fully ingrained.

I’m talking like joint bank accounts, like everything is enmeshed completely. But what I found with that was then I lost who I was on my own. It was, you know, same friend groups. If I wanted to make plans, I was bringing him along with me. He didn’t have his own hobbies. So like everything was just togetherness—like codependency, pretty much. And again, I’ve done a lot of therapy, a lot of reading really into relationship dynamics and things like that. But I feel like that first relationship for me was that.

It was so hard to leave. It took therapy for two years to get me to the point where I felt like I could actually leave that relationship because I felt a lot of guilt. I was like, You know, this was my person. What happened?

Lily (14:22)

Yeah.

Marissa (14:28)

Something that I can fix, that I need to fix, to be back into the relationship. Like I kind of blamed myself for why I felt different or why things were changing with me. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So I often, I think, second-guess myself.

Lily (14:34)

Yeah.

Is guilt a common feeling that you experience?

Yeah. Tell me more of what comes up for you when I say that.

Marissa (14:55)

And it comes through—guilt is one of the ways that I describe it, because there’s a sense of I don’t want to deceive this person or upset this person and have them be angry at me. Because I think a lot of that came from violent family dynamics growing up. But there was also this portion of, well, no, like a self-convincing of It’s not that bad, right?

Like, there were all these great years and it’s really not that bad compared to these other relationships. Maybe if I stay longer and I go to therapy, I can fix it. I can stay in the relationship and be with this person, and that love and those feelings that I felt would come back.

Lily (15:36)

Yeah, yeah. Well, I just ask because you mentioned the feeling of guilt. You mentioned that word guilt and that feeling around your friends when they came to visit after your breakup, and you felt guilty that you felt in a way that you couldn’t—you were like maybe blaming yourself for feeling poorly, and then like feeling guilty you couldn’t fix it.

Marissa (15:38)

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Thank—

Yeah, I think that’s a common thread, is me not wanting to make other people feel a certain kind of way, whether that’s like upset or disappointed. I think I feel guilty for the feelings that I’m actually feeling and feel this need to fix them.

Lily (16:17)

Yeah.

Well, and this idea that I’m hearing that is obviously, like—Marissa, so common. I feel I struggle with this too, being socialized as a woman in the world specifically. I mean, in the Western world, in which the culture around patriarchy, capitalism…

Marissa (16:26)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Lily (16:41)

…misogyny, white supremacy—that has created a hot soup of, it’s created more difficulty for women and women of color and folks of multiple marginalized identities. And it’s like, of course you, of course you have this guilt of like not wanting to impose. Of course you want to make yourself smaller. Of course you have this thought.

Marissa (16:44)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Lily (17:05)

I need to shrink my needs in order for, like, essentially what I’m hearing, and you can tell me if it doesn’t resonate, is I can, in the first relationship where you were trying to fix it, it’s like, if my needs were just different.

Marissa (17:07)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Lily (17:24)

Then this would be better, and that’s what I should do then. I should make my needs different. In essence, like shrinking what is.

Marissa (17:31)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it was like, there’s that side of it. And then but the idea of if he proposed tomorrow, that would be the worst thing that he could ask me because I would have to actually say no, right? Like confronted head on. So it was like this dueling. But I think you nailed it with what you just said, because I think it sparked.

Lily (17:48)

Confront it. Yeah. Yeah.

Marissa (17:57)

So many things for me is, and I think, and we’ll probably talk about, but this is a common thread. This is a common thread in all of my relationships. Yeah. Yeah. Let’s follow the thread. Okay. Okay. So when I was finally able to get the courage to leave that relationship, ⁓ I was single for three months. So I, through mutual friends, met another guy, really great, made me laugh. COVID hit. So he was my COVID relationship. Yeah.

Lily (18:02)

Okay, let’s—tell me more. Tell me more. Like, let’s follow the thread then. What comes up for you?

Yeah.

Okay.

Can we pause?

In those three months, were you looking? Were you like excited to date? How were you feeling?

Marissa (18:29)

Yeah.

Yes, so I think because I had wanted or had this sense of I’m not in the right relationship ⁓ within the first three years of my relationship that when I finally could leave I was excited about dating at that point because I was like wow, like there’s endless possibilities. I was excited to get out there. So I remember like I was on the apps. No, exactly, life is full again. So I didn’t, I didn’t have the grieving process with that. Like I was almost like—

Lily (18:48)

Yeah.

I didn’t marry the wrong person.

Marissa (19:02)

As I was in the relationship, kind of went through that grieving process because it was so intense to finally leave that when I was finally free or out of that relationship, I was like a kid in the candy shop. I was swiping, going on dates, having the time of my life. ⁓ So when I met, yes, COVID happens. We survived it together. To be honest, like I don’t think I could have got—

Lily (19:05)

Gotcha.

Gotcha.

So you were in this new relationship, COVID, go for it.

Marissa (19:30)

Through COVID without him, to be quite honest, just having somebody there. But it also moved very quick because pretty much we had met four months before COVID. COVID then left me living on my own by myself in Toronto. I asked him to move in with me because he was living with his parents at the time. So we moved in within like three to four months. ⁓ But honestly, great, like had a lot of fun together. ⁓ But when COVID ended,

we hadn’t had the pre-COVID dating experience of actually going on dates, of the courtship, of the conversations, of all of these things. It was like we were living in a bit of a bubble. But the common thread that I feel like I felt in that relationship was every time I would bring up hard things or feelings or needs and would try to express that he would get very angry and very defensive and kind of—

Lily (20:22)

Hmm.

Marissa (20:23)

Gas it, like put it back on me. “Well, you’re just asking for too much,” or, “That’s something that I can’t do.” And so specifically around, I think, the way that we showed love. So I’m very much—I need physical affection. So I’m very much someone that needs to feel that physical touch, so holding the hands, to be intimate with someone in any kind of way. And he pretty much told me, “I am NOT a physically affectionate person, so I can’t give that to you.”

And so I was like, okay, well, right, a bit of a standstill, because I can’t be intimate with someone where I don’t feel that sort of connection. ⁓ And so we pretty much weren’t intimate for like two years of the relationship.

Lily (20:59)

Mm-hmm.

Wow. During lockdown, after lockdown?

Marissa (21:08)

Yes, during and after lockdown.

Lily (21:15)

What was the ⁓ impetus to stay?

Marissa (21:21)

Like in the relationship. So again, I had a really hard time being like, okay, this is important enough to me, is an actual need and something that I need. And instead I treated it as a, it’s an option. It’s okay if it’s not there. I feel really lonely. I feel really lonely and really sad.

Lily (21:23)

Yeah.

Marissa (21:47)

But he makes me laugh and it’s good enough and it’s better than my last relationship. So I have no big reason to leave.

Lily (21:47)

Yeah.

Oh Marissa, I just want to give that version of you a big hug.

Marissa (22:01)

Yes.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, think, ooh, I’m getting like a little bit emotional. ⁓ But I think I felt very alone in a lot of my relationships because I feel like I haven’t been able to express and understand my own needs enough to know this isn’t it. Right? I tend to stay and negotiate with myself.

Of, “I think this is an optional,” and I think I haven’t really understood the like, no, this is something core and it does exist. But if I don’t leave, I’ll never find out.

Lily (22:38)

Mm. Mm.

Marissa (22:44)

You know, so the staying has been a common—those two relationships. It was never an option that I thought of. I was almost praying that he would break up with me to then allow me to explore other options.

Lily (22:59)

Give you the permission to do what you wanted to do.

Marissa (23:03)

Yes, yeah, because it’s like even I can feel it. I couldn’t bring myself to do it again. So like the same thing happened in my second relationship. Yeah, yeah.

Lily (23:13)

Yeah, wow. Do you mind if we talk about sex for a second?

Marissa (23:18)

Yeah, yes. Yeah, yeah. I wasn’t sure if we’re allowed to talk about that openly, so I didn’t. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Lily (23:22)

I love talking about sex. No, so he wasn’t interested in sex, or was it more like you didn’t feel as connected in general, so like it just wasn’t something that was on the table?

Marissa (23:30)

Hey.

Exactly. Like I had convinced myself that I wasn’t a sexual person, even though it’s quite the opposite, quite, quite the opposite. But I think his way about initiating felt like I couldn’t connect because he was very almost like childish and jokey with it. So it’s like, instead of being like more demanding and upfront and like more sexual, he would be like trying to tickle me and teasing.

Lily (23:54)

Hmm.

Marissa (24:05)

And then change it into something sexual. And so for me, I was just kind of confused and kind of icky and just wasn’t interested in it. Yes, which is where the conversation of—he was like, “You know, in those instances, I’m actually trying to initiate,” and I really didn’t understand that. And I was like, for me, that puts me in a mentality of like, we’re having fun and joking, but then you’ve made it sexual. And I was like, for me, I need more of the—

Lily (24:08)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Did you ever talk about that?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Marissa (24:34)

Intimacy, the holding hands, the arm around the shoulder, the kind of like a different sort of approach. And again, was met with, “Well, that’s not who I am.” And so I just felt like we couldn’t figure it out. Like we talked about it quite a few times and just didn’t align. Yeah.

Lily (24:38)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Hmm.

And you… Okay.

And he wasn’t…

I mean, yeah, that’s really tough that you had such different ways in, and he sounds somewhat unwilling to try new things. Yeah, rigidity is what I was hearing too.

Marissa (25:06)

Yeah.

He was a little rigid. Yeah, he was kind of, yeah, like a little bit less trying to understand and being flexible and trying things out. And I think it was like, well, it has to be this way, because this is how I feel about it. And like, I do remember, Q, I think part of this too wasn’t just in the initiation, but also when we were early dating. I would try to initiate in different ways of ways that I feel sexually attracted to someone—through like massages and things like that. And a couple times he would say, “This feels forced,” or “This doesn’t feel natural and I want to stop.” And so I felt a little bit of shame, I think, also because the things that I was trying he was kind of like, no, this isn’t for me, I don’t really like this, this is feeling weird—but did it in a way that wasn’t like, “Hey, let’s try something else,” or like, it wasn’t met with an openness and curiosity. And I’ve had a lot of—

Lily (25:43)

Hmm, okay.

Yeah.

Marissa (26:01)

I think again, guilt and shame around sex and feeling like a sexual person and allowing myself to actually be open. And so when it was met with someone who’s also like that, it just reaffirmed those messages.

Lily (26:05)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right. You both were struggling with something very similar, right? Because he was trying to initiate in one way that you didn’t like. You were initiating in a way that he didn’t like. It was—were you trying to make his way work or was it like, “It’s absolutely not, can you try something different?” You were saying, can you try something different?

Marissa (26:23)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I was kind of just like, “Will you try this?” And it was just like, always met with like, “Well, no.” And so it felt like I was up against a wall in the sense that I was like, okay, like, maybe I’m just not—again, maybe I’m not a sexual person. And maybe sex isn’t as important. Right? We lasted two years without it. The friendship and the partnership is strong enough that like, maybe that’s, that’s—

Lily (26:56)

Yeah.

Yeah, I’m sorry that you—that sounds really hard. And I think that I just am sensitive to—you know, I have a couple of friends who are like sex coaches, and I really love talking about sex. I feel like in another life—I’m not a sex educator, I’m not a sex coach—I can recommend them. Let me name some names. Danielle Savory, It’s My Pleasure podcast. Dr. Juliana Hauser has a book coming out soon.

Marissa (27:24)

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay.

Lily (27:31)

I love Come As You Are by Emily Nagoski. Vanessa Marin has Sex Talks, book. A lot of great resources there. But I’m very sensitive to this idea of women and people socialized as women really owning their sexuality and really stepping—

Marissa (27:33)

Kumashiro. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lily (27:53)

Into sexuality as a portal, one portal to a type of freedom. And I think that—

Marissa (27:59)

Yeah.

Yes. No, yeah, I could echo all of those because I think, yeah.

Lily (28:00)

This idea of the conditioning, the misogyny that exists of like, women just shouldn’t want, women shouldn’t want sex, are here to service specifically men, the idea of—I mean, I could go on and on. But I do think for women who date men specifically, this is a huge issue, yeah.

Marissa (28:26)

Yeah, like growing up, I think like I’ve only ever had the bad experiences that I think you come to think that that’s like normal, right? I think there’s a lot of people that have had great sexual experiences with partners that have been open, that they’ve tried things, they figure themselves out through true partnership. I’ve had the opposite, where it’s always felt like this is just something that I need to do to keep them happy, which is like a really interesting thing—that like it’s shifted because I’ve had a couple of experiences since then. But I think if you don’t have those experiences, it’s so hard to not think that what you’re experiencing is normal. Right. Because when the message is just like repeated over and over and over again, that the guy doesn’t ask you, “Does this feel good? How can I…?” You know, I just feel like there’s this impatience with men, that it needs to happen now. And if it’s not happening, it’s like, “Oh, are you okay? Is there something wrong with you?” You know.

Lily (29:07)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Well, let’s pause, and really—like words are magic wands—you just said, there’s something with men where they don’t fill in the blank. And so I’m going to ask you to really be specific in your language about the men who were wrong for you who did not check in with you.

Marissa (29:24)

⁓ Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Lily (29:41)

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Marissa (31:31)

Yeah, yeah. So I think I have had a lot of experiences with men in particular that have shown me that there is only one way of having sex or this is what should feel good. And that’s said to me when I haven’t been able to—

Lily (31:44)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Marissa (31:53)

…come to completion has always been, oh, is it because you’re nervous? Or, oh, it’s because you haven’t had enough experience. But the reality is I’ve had quite a bit of experience. The experiences that I’ve had at least to date have always been mostly focused on male pleasure—always making sure that they feel good. And I’ve just completely forgotten about myself because I’ve never had the opportunity or someone to actually—

Lily (32:08)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I think that’s really normal, and unfortunate that it’s so normal. And I think also that it doesn’t have to be your future. In fact, I think that that is and can be a qualifier/disqualifier for you in the future. In that, like I know personally from my own sexual experience that… and I don’t have— I have had some sexual… I haven’t had like—

Marissa (32:24)

Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes.

Yeah.

Lily (32:48)

I felt like a late bloomer. When it came to sex, what I felt was a little later. I had sex for the first time when I was 25. A few hard sexual experiences that I wouldn’t want to repeat. A lot of sexual experiences that were with men specifically who really showed up. And like, I know that it’s possible because of my own experience with them. And—

Marissa (33:13)

Yeah. Yeah.

Lily (33:16)

And I’ve had some really shitty experiences as well. So I think it’s that both/and that a lot of people carry around. And what I hear you saying is that you’ve had one way, which is shitty. Like, not fun.

Marissa (33:24)

Yeah. Yeah, like I think, I mean—

I mean, the good news is since moving to Spain, I have had one sexual experience and person that completely changed everything, everything, everything for me. Yeah.

Lily (33:43)

Amazing.

Marissa (33:46)

I called him my Christian Grey. Some… I don’t know. For me, I give people nicknames. So, things like early dating—he was known as C or Christian for Christian Grey. He approached it with such interest and intrigue and the sense that like, let’s figure this out together. We’re a team. Let’s try toys, let’s try whatever is going to work. I’m here. It doesn’t matter how long it takes.

Lily (33:51)

Yeah.

Cool.

Yeah.

Marissa (34:13)

And I just— it just took this pressure off because I was like, wow, like he’s not here for the end goal. It’s not about the end goal. He wants to help me find what feels good for me. And that was the first person that’s ever, ever done that.

Lily (34:29)

That’s wonderful. Thank you more please to that.

Marissa (34:31)

Yeah. Yes. Yes. More and more of the Christians, please. I need to like sprinkle that in because I think it’s— I realize I am a very sexual person and I do have needs and I want someone who wants to help me feel good at the end of the day. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Lily (34:38)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yes.

There you go. I want you to write that down after this session: I want someone who makes me feel good.

Marissa (34:56)

Because again, I think it’s been part of the thread of like, it’s an option. I’m starting to, I think, realize—and also through talking with you right now, I’m realizing—I think there are some things that are actually not optional. It’s something that I actually want in a relationship, because I don’t want to be in a relationship where I feel alone. I don’t feel like I’m being sexually satisfied. I just— I would rather be by myself than experience the types of relationships I’ve had to date.

Lily (35:28)

Yeah, yeah. And I do think that, you know, we look at our parents as examples for better or worse. And I think that a lot of folks are trying their best. And as I hear all the time, a lot of kids don’t want what their parents have. You know, my parents got divorced when I was an adult. And I hear—like if you grew up seeing a platonic—

Marissa (35:38)

Yeah.

Lily (35:50)

—marital relationship that they decided to be in, maybe of course your little baby brain would organize that as like, friendship is good enough for a romantic partnership. And instead of—

Marissa (35:54)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Lily (36:03)

—friendship can be one beautiful part of a thriving romantic relationship.

Marissa (36:09)

Exactly, exactly. And I think that’s also, again, the friends that you have around you, the information you have around you, that starts to formulate what opportunities and other there is, right? Because I think, yeah, growing up, my parents were platonic. My parents actually just separated last year. Yeah, which was crazy. That was a whole other thing. But again, me and my brother were very—

Lily (36:24)

Yeah.

Marissa (36:35)

…cognizant and conscious of the fact that our parents were in a platonic, friend-based relationship where they were not having sex at all. Like, how me and him were formed is beyond me, because I think other than that, there were a lot of issues sexually with their relationship as well. And so I think we learned, well, even if it’s not great, you stay and you work it out, right? And so I’ve been having to try to unravel that slowly.

And I will say, I think since these first two relationships, I’ve gotten better at not staying as long. So even if there’s a little bit of progress, it’s been that I don’t stay for two years. Maybe I stay for six months, and then maybe it’s two months, but that window is getting smaller at least. Yeah, yeah.

Lily (37:09)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. I love that you’re recognizing that, and that’s wonderful. And I want to go to, like—you said, why do you want to address this challenge now? In your application you said, I’d like to learn practical skills I can put into place. I’ve got the desire to learn and grow, but lack the guidance and could use some help. So tell me now, pivoting to the what now. How can I support you in the what now of it all?

Marissa (37:37)

Yeah.

Yeah… yeah. So I think dating now has been very interesting, because I think I’ve had these different experiences that have really changed my outlook on what exists in terms of relationships for me. I think what I’m struggling with now is on one side, I’m saying no quicker to people. I think I’m listening more to my gut—like, listen, if it’s a no, it’s a no. I’m not doing the whole “force myself to go on poor dates to see if things change.”

Lily (38:10)

Great.

Great.

Marissa (38:19)

—and evolve. I’m just kind of listening internally. Like, you know, there are some people where I’m like, yes. So let’s lean into the people that I’m like, yes, I want to see them again. And the people that I’m not really sure about, it’s kind of a no for me. And that’s been helping guide me a little bit. But I think what’s happening is, as I’m starting to get to know people, I’m going on these dates and I start to see these familiar pieces in terms of—

Lily (38:25)

Yeah.

Marissa (38:46)

—okay, we sleep together. And he’s not asking… what do I do with that? Like, is this something that maybe I have to start advocating for myself and speaking to them about what I like, and telling them my past experiences? Like, I don’t know how to navigate. Is it just about finding someone and going on these dates until I find someone that’s open again in the bedroom, that can facilitate this?

Or do I have to coach and train and work on that with someone, if there are other qualities that I think are worth investing in that person?

Lily (39:22)

Mm-mm.

Mm-hmm. I think it’s a spectrum. I don’t think that it’s like an either/or, because everybody has a different expectation of what a first sexual encounter will look and feel like, what I want to say, what I don’t want to say. And I think that we can decide together: what is your spectrum of yes and no? What are you willing to teach and express and say—versus… which is, I think—

Marissa (39:28)

Hmm. Hmm.

True. Yeah.

Lily (39:55)

Every sexual partner, you’re going to need to teach them what you like, because every person likes something different.

Marissa (40:00)

Of course. Yeah.

Lily (40:03)

Both/and—we can determine what the spectrum is of like, okay, you’re not the type of partner that I need and want. So what’s coming up for you as I say that?

Marissa (40:12)

Yeah. Yeah. So what’s interesting is, I think if I zoom out, it’s not so much about in the bedroom that they’re asking, they’re prompting. I think it more is having someone who is curious about me and has a desire to get to know me and ask those questions.

Because I have had experiences with a guy that I saw a little while ago that was, like—when I was having issues or challenges in the bedroom, he separately actually asked. He was like, Can I ask something? When you were going through that in the moment, what was coming up for you? Can I do something different? Like, there was that. Beautiful, beautiful. And again, these are the little—yes, okay, okay. This is helpful. ‘Cause I think this is what I’m trying to discern, right? It’s like—

Lily (40:44)

That’s wonderful. That is the standard. That’s the standard. So that’s the standard.

Well, you’re looking—I mean, here’s a micro/macro moment. You’re asking for permission from me, which is fine, to want what you want.

Marissa (41:02)

Yeah.

Yes. Yep. Yep. It’s, again, it’s like I’m almost asking permission to be okay with waiting until that level of person or those things are present in someone, right? Because I think I’m like, well, am I out to lunch? Like, is this one in a million? And am I better off… I guess, yeah. Yeah.

Lily (41:31)

How many times have you experienced it once—that somebody was curious? Great. Then if that person exists, then it’s probable that other people exist like him.

Marissa (41:39)

There’s another one.

Yeah, that’s beautiful. I think just also hearing that, I think it’s sometimes like getting that validation from someone is so key for me, because I think I’m a lot in my head. I question. And so when somebody can say like, no, like you are deserving of that, and like, if that exists, you’re going to find that again—I think that’s all I need sometimes to hear.

Lily (41:45)

Yeah.

Yeah!

Yeah.

Great.

And I think external validation is something that all humans crave at some level, and that’s really normal. I would say it’s a both/and of like, you get to ask for what you want, whether it’s, Hey, friend, can you just tell me that I’m not asking for too much and that I’m gonna be okay? Can you tell me that out loud? Can I hear you say that? Like, that’s totally fine. Asking me to affirm your preferences is a totally fine ask and…

Marissa (42:08)

…need a little bit. Yeah. Yeah.

Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or think I’m like not deserving, maybe on some level, or maybe not for me.

Lily (42:32)

What I do see is your growth edge as a human— is noticing how often you doubt your inner knowing.

Marissa (42:57)

Because I think often, like, when I’ve heard friends say like, No, you deserve someone who’s as incredible as you are—just to hear that from someone, you’re like, okay, if they’re saying it, maybe there’s something. And I think I’ve struggled a lot with just self-confidence and like, I am deserving of that level of partner. And I am okay with owning, I’m willing to wait until I feel like that again, rather than negotiating with myself, being like—

Lily (43:08)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Marissa (43:26)

Well, maybe. Yeah.

Lily (43:28)

Well, let’s pause with the waiting—like, what are you making waiting mean?

Marissa (43:34)

I think—

Lily (43:36)

—or like the time that it takes. What are you making that mean?

Marissa (43:40)

I think I’m making it mean that I may have to go on a lot of dates, meet a lot of people until I find someone with these qualities that I’m looking for.

Lily (43:55)

And so what? Why is that a problem in your brain? Like in your default brain, not in your like, I know what Lily wants me to say brain, but like, why has that been a problem?

Marissa (44:02)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think I want to be with someone and want to find that person. Like, I think I’ve always prioritized that above friends, family, career. It’s always been the number one priority.

And not in the sense that I’m in a rush, because I personally have made the decision I don’t want children. So for me, it’s not a biological clock thing, but it’s like—I’m so eager to give the love and the care and that to another person. It’s not about just having someone to have someone. It’s about wanting to find that person that I feel we can build something together with, and I can give that person the love that I know I have. I’ve just been feeling like I’m not giving it to the right—

Lily (44:39)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Marissa (44:53)

…simple.

Lily (44:54)

What’s coming up for me is that it’s difficult for you to receive the level of love that you give, that it’s much more comfortable to give.

Marissa (45:03)

Mmm. Yeah. So in the way that you think, I’m—yeah. Or maybe trying to find the people sometimes, on some level, that when I see the signs that there’s incompatibility, or I know they’re not going to be able to meet my needs, I have a hard time with being like, okay, well, not this person. You know? Yeah.

Lily (45:12)

—and try to prove with giving. I think it goes back to like a worthiness thing. I’m worthy of… deservedness. You know, that’s a complicated concept that some brains easily latch onto. Other brains, because of particular past circumstances, have more difficulty. The concept of deservedness is complicated. I think the concept of worthiness is infinitely simpler: I’m a human being on this earth who is breathing. Therefore, I am worthy of expressing—

Marissa (45:40)

Yeah.

Hmm.

Yeah, yeah, yes.

Lily (46:00)

…and asking and being in relationships that feel mutual and satisfactory with myself and others.

Marissa (46:09)

Yes, and I think I have a really hard time with that. Like everything you just said of like, I think staying in relationships that I knew weren’t good for me, dating people that I could tell early on weren’t really a fit, because I think on some level there’s a fear of actually finding someone that might actually meet my needs. Or, you know, and there’s a lot of thoughts that go… I think this resonates probably with a lot of people, but it’s also like, well, does this person really exist? You know? But I think when you just said, but you experienced it and I’ve had little nuggets of these different things on like a…

Lily (46:32)

Yeah.

Marissa (46:48)

…on a sexual side, an emotional safety, and someone who’s gonna listen to me and all those things. Like, I’ve had bits and pieces, I just haven’t found someone or met someone yet that embodies all of those things that I’m looking for.

Lily (47:03)

What thought are you currently practicing in your brain that may feel like a truth or a belief that spurs the feeling of unworthiness for you? Can you identify that thought or assumption?

Marissa (47:16)

Hmm.

I think it’s the assumption that because I haven’t found it yet, it doesn’t exist. And so it’s not so much, I think, like I’m unworthy of it. I’ve convinced myself that my needs in a person will not exist. And so I’m gonna have to compromise my needs.

Lily (47:23)

Yeah.

Huh.

Well, so in that way, like I am too much, my needs are too much, I need to fix my needs. Hence why you went, you know, without sex for two years, hence why you struggled to break it off with your first boyfriend. I think that that’s like the thread here, which is I haven’t found it yet, so it doesn’t exist, so I’m asking for too much.

Marissa (47:54)

Yeah.

Yes. Yes.

Lily (48:03)

So…

I wanna — and this is very just like understandable, normal. Like you’re one of millions of people who this happens to, especially for people socialized as women. This is very common. And I also wanted to bring up the idea that women in particular carry, people socialized as women carry, which is that I need to struggle in order to be worthy…

Marissa (48:12)

Yeah.

Lily (48:30)

…of something. It needs to feel like hard work because it is not safe for things to feel more easeful. It’s not actually normal for me to…

Marissa (48:33)

Yep.

Lily (48:41)

…feel cared for in this way.

Marissa (48:43)

Yeah, it’s like if I met more people, I think I had dates with people that embody those characteristics, and it’d be like, okay, like, this is very common. There’s actually lots of people that are, you know, open or… I don’t know, I feel like I just… but also I wonder if when I first meet people, I’m already trying to analyze where they fall in this, in the spectrum, and maybe not also giving it an opportunity for me to see through more dates. I don’t know.

Lily (49:09)

⁓

I don’t think so. I think that the… I don’t… that’s not what I’m hearing.

Marissa (49:11)

Yeah.

Lily (49:14)

You said it’s been very common that you’ve found people who don’t meet your needs, who don’t get curious, who don’t ask you questions, who don’t show up for you in the way that you want to show up for you. You know what else is really common? Settling.

Marissa (49:30)

Amen. Yup. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lily (49:37)

That’s why most people unfortunately know someone, if not many people, who have settled. Now, there are a lot of ways to do relationship. I don’t think that a relationship, you know, lasting and then ending is a failure necessarily. Like I love how, you know, Amy Poehler talks about her relationship ending in her book Yes, Please, of like, we had 10 years together. Like it was a beautiful and…

Marissa (49:44)

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Lily (50:04)

…intense 10 years and like, that’s not a failure. I’m not saying settling means… settling means you’ll be…

Marissa (50:11)

Yeah.

Lily (50:11)

…forever with one person and if you aren’t with one person and you’ve settled, I’m saying your relationship inside of it deserves, gets to feel… it is a requirement that every relationship that you choose in your life feels mutual, satisfactory, joyful. Like that’s my belief anyway.

Now, relationships with people that you don’t choose, right? Like some relationships with family, some relationships… like those can…

Marissa (50:33)

Yeah. Yes.

Lily (50:39)

…be different. Every relationship that you choose needs to, in my opinion, get to be extraordinary.

Marissa (50:41)

Yeah.

That’s beautiful. I really like that. Yes. Yes.

Lily (50:48)

…and that’s not as common as settling. So of course you’re for the few, not for the many. Like yeah, it may take a little while, but what I don’t want for you is to…

…convince yourself that your needs are wrong.

Marissa (51:00)

Yeah, I think, like, I think that’s exactly, exactly it. It’s like I think me learning how to own my needs as my needs and they’re important and if I find someone that I don’t think can meet them, being okay with saying no, not for me. Because I think I have not been able to break up a relationship once I’m in it.

So I think what happens before that, I think becomes more critical to make sure that I’m making the right choices for myself before I commit to being in a relationship with someone.

Lily (51:35)

Well, and there we have another piece that we could talk about for another hour, which is the idea of trusting yourself next time that you can end something that is not right for you. You have not yet, right? You said, I have not been able to. I would add like, I have not yet.

Marissa (51:40)

Mm-hmm.

Yes, yes, amen.

Yeah. Yeah, but it doesn’t mean…

Lily (51:54)

You can,

Marissa (51:54)

Yes.

Lily (51:55)

…you have the skills to know what you want now. And I think your homework after this session is to inventory your needs and wants. Like literally just write them down, not in a rigid checklist way, but in a really self-permissive way. I need somebody who checks in with how I’m feeling, who if they notice that I’m holding back or I’m struggling, they get curious about it. If they are holding back or struggling, I get curious about it. So maybe I just… this is like…

Marissa (52:10)

Yeah. Yeah.

Lily (52:24)

…your needs aren’t more important than anybody else’s and they’re the same level of important. And they’re actually… actually I amend that. They are more important because you’re the only one who can get them met.

Marissa (52:27)

No. Yes. Well…

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Lily (52:41)

So I want you to inventory your needs and wants after this session, like write them down with like a big permission slip. I have permission to want what I want. I have permission. Like something rare still exists. If something didn’t exist, then we would call it extinct, but beautiful, like stones that are found in nature that are quote rare, they exist. Similar to how this man who you met, who checked in, asked about your needs — like that man exists.

Marissa (52:50)

Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lily (53:09)

So it’s possible, probable that more men like him exist. So categorize your needs and wants with a big old permission slip. I want you to, even in the relationships in your life now — like friendships — is there a need or a want that you’re maybe holding back from asking for, that you could…

Marissa (53:09)

Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Hmm.

Lily (53:27)

Start advocating for? The way you do one thing is the way we do everything. And so I think that there could be ways in your friendships that you could practice this now to start to normalize.

Marissa (53:35)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dip my toe in a little bit.

Lily (53:40)

There you go. Lastly, I want you to do a big old self-compassion meditation or a journaling exercise around your guilt and second-guessing. I think what would be powerful for you is to take two colored pens.

One pen is your higher self, like this self that you may feel like after the session, hopefully, or like your older self potentially. The other self is the one that’s like—

Marissa (54:06)

Yep, yep.

Lily (54:08)

Constantly doubting yourself, specifically in your love life. Have them have a conversation. You want curiosity from the future partner? Get fucking curious about yourself. Your—

Marissa (54:12)

Yep. Yeah, yeah.

Lily (54:19)

Higher self, your older self, asking: why might you be second-guessing yourself so much? And don’t couch it. Don’t be like, well, I shouldn’t—no. Be like, well, I may do this because of this in my childhood or I may do this because of this experience where I was taught… And then that older self can be just like so fucking compassionate toward—

Marissa (54:33)

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I’ve got it. I like it. Perfect homework. Yeah.

Lily (54:37)

—the version of yourself second-guessing. That’s the tool to integrate, to start to soften and release the self-doubt.

Great, this is really great. I think that this is also gonna set you up in your dating life for so many more pleasurable experiences and the right relationship ultimately.

Marissa (54:53)

Agreed.

Agreed. Love that. Thank you so much. Honestly, yeah, I love how you connected everything and just really resonated with me. So really appreciate it.

Lily (54:59)

Absolutely.

Absolutely. I’m so grateful to have coached you.

Marissa (55:08)

Yay. Okay, bye Lily, thank you.

Lily (55:07)

Yay! All right, talk to you soon. Bye.

Lily (55:13)

That conversation was so powerful. Marissa, thank you for coming on this podcast. Thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for being willing to be coached and getting in there with me. I am so grateful that you allowed yourself to be seen and supported in that session. And for all of you listening, I hope that you implement any aha moments that you had. I hope that you do that journaling exercise that I gave Marissa at the end of the episode.

Marissa, thank you so much for that powerful conversation. Thank you for allowing yourself to be seen and held and coached. It was my pleasure, and I’m really excited for what is to come. Everybody, I hope that you put these lessons into your pocket, walk around with a little more worthiness this week, a little less self-doubt. I hope that you start asking for what you want right now in every relationship in your life. And I am so excited to bring you another episode next week. Bye.