If you’ve ever opened a dating app and immediately wanted to throw your phone across the room — this one’s for you.

In episode 263 of the Feminist Dating Show, I’m coaching Kayla live. This episode is for you if you relate to any of this:

• You open a dating app and immediately spiral into, “What if they make me uncomfortable?” or “what if I say something stupid?”
• You avoid swiping because judging people by their photos makes you feel like a bad person
• You watch your friends get matches and wonder what you’re doing wrong
• You feel like a late bloomer, a re-entry dater, or just behind
• Deep down, you’re afraid the real problem is that you’re just not lovable… 

In this episode, I help Kayla name what’s underneath her dating avoidance. We name what makes dating apps so dang difficult on our brains/bodies/nervous systems (they are such a flawed tool!). AND we build a simple “if this, then that” plan for dating that soothes her anxiety. In this episode, you’ll learn to swipe without abandoning yourself, without judging yourself for your attraction preferences, or without lowering your standards.

Work with Lily:

Read Lily’s book: Thank You, More Please

Watch on YouTube: youtube.com/@datebrazen

Follow on TikTok: tiktok.com/@datebrazen

Follow on Instagram: instagram.com/datebrazen

Explore programs + resources: datebrazen.com

---

Show transcript:

Lily (00:01)

Hey, gorgeous friends, welcome to another episode of the Feminist Dating Show. I’m so excited to share this coaching session with you, with Kayla. Have you ever opened a dating app and immediately wanted to throw your phone across the room? Like, your brain is already spinning, what if they make me uncomfortable? What if I say something stupid? What if I freeze? What if I get rejected? What if there’s nobody out there for me? Today’s episode, I am coaching Kayla.

who is so deeply anxious about opening a dating app, about not finding anybody for her, about judging profiles and feeling fear about judging people as a result. Does judging people make me a bad person if I’m not attracted to them?

if you have ever struggled with any of that anxiety, this session is for you. Today, I’m gonna help Kayla name what’s underneath dating app avoidance and dating avoidance in general, comparison, fear of rejection, and underneath all of that, the story of maybe I’m just unlovable, which is what Kayla was struggling with. And then I helped Kayla build a concrete she can use and that you can use too.

with really simple, if this, then that rules for your dating life, which is like a self-compassion reset when your brain goes wild with dating. And I also share the exact framework I want you to be using to swipe and to date without abandoning yourself or your preferences. If you feel like a late bloomer, a first timer, a re-entry dater, or you just feel behind and exhausted by dating apps in general, this episode is your nervous system’s new bestie.

Let’s get into it.

Lily (02:20)

Kayla, welcome to the show. So glad that you’re here. I’m excited to coach your face off. I am curious, what do you want to get out of this session? Like what would feel after this time together, like what would feel like that was successful, you know?

Kayla (02:23)

Thank you.

clarity, Reassurance. And maybe, well, I know you do this, but just like a achievable plan going forward.

Lily (02:52)

Hmm, cool. ⁓

achievable plan going forward, what do you mean?

What does that mean to you?

Kayla (02:59)

I’m a very anxious person. So I think something that gently pushes me out of my comfort zone, but isn’t too aggressive.

Lily (03:10)

Mm-hmm.

And when you I think, you know, I would love to hear more about how anxiety has played a role in your love life. Can you share more about that?

Kayla (03:20)

Yeah, it’s definitely something I’m working on in therapy. ⁓ I’ve always been anxious since day one of any kind of ⁓ romantic feelings. And I think it’s a pressure to be liked. ⁓ Maybe that’s the wrong way of putting it, ⁓ wanting everyone to like me. ⁓ And

Lily (03:47)

Yeah.

Kayla (03:49)

fear of rejection and yeah, I guess really just like fear of rejection. ⁓ then the some experiences that I have had, ⁓ actually, I guess all of them have have not ended well. So I think ⁓ it just there’s like that confirmation bias of, you know,

Lily (04:07)

Hmm.

Kayla (04:15)

I’m always going to be rejected.

Lily (04:18)

Hmm, yeah. I think that’s super common and tough and you obviously are aware of the pattern because you use the word confirmation bias or the phrase confirmation bias. But I want to know, you know, I’ve read about this in your application, but can you share with me about your romantic experience?

Kayla (04:38)

it started in college, I suppose. I was incredibly shy and ⁓ anxious. I didn’t know it was anxiety, you know, at the time. So by what time I got to college, it kind of got worse until I got a little bit more comfortable. And then

there just felt like a lot of pressure to be like all of my friends. So a lot of pressure to hook up with guys or, really, really just that. ⁓ So when I was in college and I hadn’t experienced what everyone else seemingly had experienced, ⁓ there’s a lot of like judgment. So I think I felt like I had to catch up. And the only way I could do that was

through like, and I didn’t really drink much, but in that culture, you know, it’s, I was like, there’s this thing called alcohol that makes you more outgoing and less anxious. So maybe that’ll help. but then also just pressure from friends too. ⁓ unfortunately of like, you know, my first kiss ever was pressured from someone else. I didn’t want to kiss him, but there was pressure to do that. And then,

Lily (05:37)

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kayla (05:55)

You know, guess alcohol gave me courage to at least pursue men, but they didn’t treat me well. There was a lot of like emotional manipulation. Yeah, and just feeling like everything I did was wrong or I would be judged for my inexperience.

Lily (05:58)

Hmm.

Hmm, yeah. I’m sorry you went through that. That sucks.

Kayla (06:18)

Thank you.

Lily (06:20)

I wonder cut to like from college to now been, you know, about, I guess like little less than 15 years. Tell me about what has transpired in your love life between then and now.

Kayla (06:23)

Mm. Yeah.

⁓ I guess that hookup culture continued a little in my early twenties and then I stopped. Luckily, good for my health. but, ⁓ still like a lot of extreme anxiety. think I went on like one date with one guy in my mid twenties or something. and, but, and then, you know, everyone kind of switched to using dating apps, but even that like caused me so much.

anxiety and fear that I refused to kind of use them at all and I wasn’t meeting men in my everyday life I just really haven’t dated at don’t know maybe two years ago or something. I downloaded a dating app to see how that worked.

But I haven’t had any luck with them and then I, again, that anxiety really has come up ⁓ and it was so, I still experience it, but so bad that even the thought of just opening up a dating app and seeing some man’s profile, like I could barely even do that.

Yeah, I think it’s.

I don’t know, there’s a lot of internal judgment and then I think ⁓ I don’t want to judge people based off of their few photos and a profile and it forces you to kind of do that. And then I get in my head and then like a battle every time.

Lily (08:09)

Mm-hmm.

Hmm, yeah. So tell me, how are you at advocating for yourself outside of dating?

Kayla (08:24)

⁓ getting better every day thanks to therapy. I’ve made some good progress in the last couple, in probably the last year, I’d say. Yeah. ⁓ it’s been very scary. ⁓ but I survived, which is good for my anxiety brain. Who thinks I won’t? yeah, I definitely have been trying to do it more on work and then with

Lily (08:26)

Great.

Awesome, what’s that been like? Tell me.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kayla (08:50)

my family and friends and I will probably mention therapy a thousand times because I think it’s amazing, but it’s definitely helpful.

Lily (09:03)

What is a celebration in terms of advocating for yourself that you can share with me? Like give me an example from recent memory.

Kayla (09:12)

setting like boundaries at work with a coworker of like, this is how I prefer to ⁓ communicate. saying like, I won’t get into like the, the super details, but just like, instead of, you know, constant like talking person about projects and then over email and

you know, this other communication chat style, ⁓ how about we have one central location ⁓ for that? And so I pushed for that and that’s been helpful. Yeah.

Lily (09:45)

Amazing, amazing.

What helped you overcome your anxiety so that you could take that action?

Kayla (09:54)

I think part of it was reaching my limit of what I could handle. It caused a lot of stress and still kind of does. So it was almost like if I don’t do this I’m going to be miserable way more often and I don’t want to feel that way.

Lily (10:10)

Hmm.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, okay. Well, ⁓ that’s interesting if we apply it to your dating life, because I hear that maybe in this mindset, it’s sort of a double bind of like, I’m thinking about dating, I wanna be dating, I wanna be finding somebody, and that kind of feels miserable thinking and spending about that. And then maybe, and I’m assuming you can correct me if it doesn’t feel on base, but then thinking about dating and like doing the dating also…

you know, in this future casting brain feels has a misery component as well.

Kayla (10:49)

Yeah.

Lily (10:51)

So I’m wondering if we were to center your desires, because at work you were centering your desire in the way that you were like, I don’t want to feel this miserable at work. I desire to feel better and more supported and at work, period. What is your desire in your dating life?

Kayla (11:13)

I would like a supportive…

safe feeling relationship.

Lily (11:23)

huh. Cool. How does that feel to say out loud?

Kayla (11:29)

Good. Yeah.

Lily (11:30)

Yeah. What

do you think, what do you think is going to take to find that relationship?

Kayla (11:36)

I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to overcome my anxiety, but at least getting to a point of, working through it.

Lily (11:44)

Yeah, yeah. I see what’s coming up for you right now.

Kayla (11:52)

It feels impossible. So…

I can’t imagine it, so I think that’s where I feel stuck.

Lily (12:01)

Yeah, what is it like to not be able to imagine what you want?

Kayla (12:08)

It really affects any kind of hope I have for the future.

I think if I can’t even imagine it then it can’t possibly happen. My internal thoughts.

it makes it also harder when friends or loved ones say, just have hope or I’m sure it’ll happen for you and stuff like that. But when my internal thoughts are like, but I can’t even imagine it. So I can’t have any hope for the future.

Lily (12:40)

you

Why do you think it is? I think so many people are with you. I mean, so many people listening are nodding along and feeling like, my God, Kayla is speaking my language. I’m wondering what it is about. I can’t imagine it, therefore it must not be possible. Like, what about your imagination? Why is that, do you think? Why do you think that? What’s going on there?

Kayla (12:49)

Thank

I think it’s like the really the main point of feeling stuck, I think

Maybe it’s like if I really dig deep, possibly like that I’m not the fears that I’m not lovable. ⁓ and because I’ve never been in a relationship, never really dated that like the possibility doesn’t it again, like confirms that I think.

Lily (13:29)

you

It’s really interesting sort of pausing and getting beneath the surface. Cause I think that you said, I can’t imagine that you said supportive, safe feeling relationship. can’t imagine that. And so therefore it must not be possible. And then we paused and I asked you another question about like, okay, so what is it about you not being able to imagine it? That is like a problem that precludes you from ever having it. And your response, I know I’m repeating you, but I just want to really

Everybody needs to hear this. A layer deeper is a story that you had about yourself that makes it impossible. it’s not, can’t imagine what I’m hearing is the root of this is I’m afraid that I’m unlovable.

And so if I had this fear or deeply held belief that I was unlovable, of course the right relationship is impossible.

Kayla (14:42)

Right.

Lily (14:43)

Does that resonate?

That’s what we need to work on.

Kayla (14:55)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lily (14:59)

Because I’m looking at this and I work with people like you every single goddamn day, Kayla. I’m like, I work with people who feel that it’s too late, who are in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, who haven’t found love yet or who are restarting their dating life after a bad relationship or whatever, being widowed or being divorced. And I’m just sitting over here, neutral as can be, like, well, you just haven’t tried the things yet.

you haven’t, you’ve tried, but maybe in not a way that served you, or maybe there’s like, there’s a billion different things that you could do to attract the right relationship effectively with a joyful dating life. I know this because I’m over here, I do it every single day. But I get that home alone at 1 a.m., after seeing all of your friends partnered up, which is what you shared in your application, after, ⁓ you know, you have anxiety that…

causes you to, know, metaphorically sort of like throw the phone across the room with a dating app, that it would feel impossible to like, what do you mean? I’m just gonna try the steps. I’ve tried everything. Like I totally hear how this feels like an impossible Rubik’s cube. And at the center of it is maybe I’m just the problem. Maybe I’m just unlovable.

Kayla (16:01)

Yep.

Yeah, it does, yeah. And I think also just the…

Lily (16:20)

Does that resonate?

Kayla (16:27)

It’s almost like blaming my anxiety too of like It’ll never happen because I’m too anxious and people will see that and it’s awful they’ll judge me and there’s

Lily (16:41)

Yeah. Yeah, anxious people find love every single day. I’m one of them.

Kayla (16:48)

Yeah.

Lily (16:50)

You know,

wanna know how scary it is to be in my brain sometimes? Scary, scary place. Don’t wanna go in that haunted house. I’m serious. Like I know that everybody has different shades and volumes of anxiety in their brain. Some people’s brain chemistry lends itself more toward anxious thinking. A lot of people have ⁓ trauma from their childhood that informs ⁓ adulthood patterns of anxious attachment or avoidant attachment. I totally get that everybody is coming from such a different place.

Kayla (16:54)

Yeah.

Lily (17:21)

And I also want to own like, and I have anxiety too. There are so many people who have anxiety who also get what they want in this life, relationally.

Kayla (17:33)

Mm-hmm.

Lily (17:37)

I hear that the fear is that your anxiety is repulsive to people.

What’s it like to hear that back to you?

Kayla (17:48)

I think about it all the time. ⁓

Lily (17:53)

When you

think about it all the time, what is that thought process like? What are you thinking?

Kayla (17:58)

it’s unattractive or I don’t feel I’m not ⁓ an adult or competent.

Lily (18:07)

Hmm

How are you not an adult if you have anxiety?

Kayla (18:15)

I think it’s like…

comparison thing of thinking that everyone else has it figured out and I don’t. Yeah.

Lily (18:24)

Yeah, around the

relationship specifically or are there any other areas of your life where you feel this way?

Kayla (18:30)

Relationships, guess like financially.

Lily (18:35)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kayla (18:38)

I don’t wanna home, you know?

Lily (18:41)

Mm-hmm. Where do you live? You don’t have to tell me exactly, but like regionally?

Kayla (18:45)

Philadelphia.

Lily (18:47)

Okay. Like outskirts or like city?

Kayla (18:50)

outstrips.

Lily (18:52)

that makes sense.

Would it shock you to know I have no ambition to own a fucking home?

Kayla (19:01)

Okay, yeah.

Lily (19:04)

Zero.

Kayla (19:09)

Yeah, I mean, I get the struggle.

Lily (19:10)

Like, it’s, well

no, don’t, I really don’t want it. It doesn’t make me more or less of an adult.

Kayla (19:16)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Lily (19:24)

I just, my God, this is so juicy, Kayla. They’re like, financially, how else financially do you not feel like an adult? Do you wanna share?

Kayla (19:34)

⁓ I’m gonna have to buy a new car soon and that’s making me panic I have ⁓ Just like am I gonna be able to afford a car payment? I Know I’m underpaid for my job. So there’s that and then little things of like I don’t I haven’t bought I’m I’ve saved so I’ve I’ve gotten there. I’m gonna be

Lily (19:39)

huh, why?

my God, yeah.

Kayla (20:00)

couch shopping soon, but I’ve never bought like a large piece of furniture for myself. You know, it’s all the hand-me-downs.

Lily (20:02)

Great.

Yeah.

my God. You are at such an exciting moment, Kayla.

I’m serious, I just feel so much excitement for you and you get to just feel anxious about it, I don’t care, but I feel so much excitement because what you’re talking about is I haven’t bought a big piece of furniture yet. I haven’t figured out if I can afford a certain level of car payment or not yet. I haven’t bought a, if you wanna buy a house, I haven’t bought a house yet.

Kayla (20:25)

Hahaha

Mm-hmm.

Lily (20:49)

⁓ You’re not over. You’re not done cooking. And I get that anxiety isn’t logical. It’s a total safety behavior that you are aware of how to move through effectively for yourself with the help of therapy, I would imagine. You haven’t dated and found love yet.

Kayla (20:52)

Yeah.

you.

Lily (21:17)

How does it feel to hear me say these words? Does it feel true or you’re like, ⁓ Lily, you’re just, you know, it’s so great that you can believe that, but I don’t.

Kayla (21:31)

feeling behind when everyone else I know is in a relationship or can’t afford a car, you know, all these things.

Lily (21:43)

I just want to pause there. So many people that I speak to are imagining the lives of the people around them and imagining how far behind they are in comparison. I, comparison is a safety behavior. Comparison is here to, you know, all of us fear rejection like we fear death neurobiologically, because when we lived in caves, rejection literally meant being put out of the tribe, put out of the cave.

and dying from exposure. So comparison is a faulty safety behavior that we inherited from our ancestors that says, I need to fit in so as not to be rejected. Yeah.

your brain, it’s sort of like this is an invitation to upgrade your operating system.

And what I hear is a, that, you know what’s really like indulgent? What people who have time can do is get curious and ask questions. When you don’t feel like you have any time, there’s no time to ask questions, you’re not gonna be curious. You gotta hurry up and then I feel more anxious because I’m trying to push through and I can’t figure it out. But let’s just imagine, suspend disbelief, that you had time to be curious right now. You and me are in this call, there’s nobody else on this call right now.

We need to be curious. We need to indulge in curiosity about your current circumstances and thoughts.

Kayla (23:13)

Mm-hmm.

Lily (23:14)

I wonder how much data you’re missing in the comparison spiral. Are all of your friends in happy, healthy, romantic relationships? We don’t know. Hopefully, I hope that for them, maybe, maybe not. We have no idea because we’re not in that room with them, right? Are all of your friends in debt financially? We gotta think about, if you’re gonna compare yourself to your friends, then you better.

Kayla (23:28)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yep.

Lily (23:44)

be curious about the full spectrum of data, right? Not that you need to compare, but like your brain is offering you this like teeny tiny snapshot and deciding based on that teeny tiny snapshot that you’re irreparably behind.

Kayla (23:57)

Yeah.

Lily (23:59)

instead

of like sort of taking a deep breath and answering your brain’s questions.

Kayla (24:05)

Yeah. Yeah, I kind of, I’m thinking about it as like a very, like being very narrow in, in, in it and like taking a moment to like zoom out.

Lily (24:05)

Does this make sense?

So if we were to take a moment to zoom out, it felt safe to zoom out, what might you discover or see here?

Kayla (24:29)

that I’m not the only one.

Lily (24:32)

Yes, you’re not the only one. You’re not the only

one. This is really important because anxiety would have you believe that you’re alone in a padded cell of your own making, that you’re alone and nobody wants to be around you. Take a deep breath.

No, I literally want you to close your eyes. I’m not looking at you. I’m gonna close my eyes too. And I want you to take a deep breath. We’re gonna do five beats in, hold at the top for three, 10 beats out. We’re gonna do it two times. Everybody listening can join us. Nobody’s watching. Ready? Breathe out all your air to empty the tank. And breathe in. Two, three, four, five, hold. Two, three, exhale. Two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10. Inhale, two, three, four, five.

Hold two, three, exhale two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10. Wiggle your fingers and toes coming back to the room. How do you feel after those two deep breaths? Any different than before in micro ways? How?

Kayla (25:37)

Yes. More

calm.

Lily (25:42)

Cool, great. That’s a tool. We’re just filling your toolkit and like just reminding you of what you have at your disposal. It’s sort of like having a leak in your bathroom and being like, my God, I have nothing to fix. I don’t know what, instead of going to the drawer and looking in the junk drawer or looking in the toolbox to see like, what do I have at my disposal right now to triage support for this urgent need. In this case, your anxiety. Okay. So comparison.

Kayla (25:45)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lily (26:13)

Where is comparison coming up in your dating life right now? And let’s work on it right now.

Kayla (26:20)

probably like, you know, other, I have like a handful of people, no less than that. I know like maybe three people who are also single. And I think seeing them like get matches on a dating app. I know they’re also struggling, but you know, even going on a date and something like that. so I think it’s…

I don’t experience, I haven’t experienced that so feels like I’m doing something wrong and like other people have it figured out and I don’t.

Lily (26:55)

Hmm. Hmm.

Kayla (26:58)

And then I just get very in my head about it. And like, I’m a bad person because I don’t see people on there that I’m attracted to and am I being too judgmental ⁓ and so on. Yeah.

Lily (27:12)

Okay,

okay, we’re gonna do two things. ⁓ We’re gonna answer that brains question in a moment. Am I being too judgmental? Okay, first though, I want you to…

Kayla (27:20)

Mm-hmm.

Lily (27:26)

Really be kind to yourself. Do you know have you had a practice of self-compassion before?

Kayla (27:31)

Yes.

Lily (27:33)

What was that like for you?

Kayla (27:35)

good in the moment and then I forget to do it.

Lily (27:38)

Yeah, totally normal. Good in the moment

and then I forget to do it. Like most things that are good for us, right? Like I did a Reiki session a couple weeks ago. I was like, oh my God, this would change my life if I did it weekly. Have I signed up for future Reiki sessions? No. Have I even gone to the website? No, like it’s very human of us to do something that felt amazing and then to move on with our lives. But what I’m calling you into and everybody listening and myself as well is,

Kayla (27:45)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Lily (28:08)

you get to prioritize yourself more than the default. The default might be, I’m too busy. I need to figure so many things out, but I really need you and everybody listening and myself included. We all need to really be curious about what self prioritization looks like in micro and macro moments. And so even scheduling a reminder.

Kayla (28:16)

Mm-hmm.

Lily (28:36)

on your phone daily at 4 p.m. self-compassion break, right? That tactical action step, maybe like there’s an app called I Am, I believe, and it does like affirmations. You could write your own self-compassion affirmations and have it like ping you if notifications aren’t your thing, don’t do that. But I just think like there’s opportunity here for you to remind yourself to be in the practice of being kind to yourself. Because what I heard just happen,

Kayla (28:51)

Okay.

Lily (29:06)

is you were sharing, compare myself, my friends are getting matches, I’m not getting matches. And then I feel like a bad person because then I hear shame. I must be at fault, there must be something wrong with me. And then we have the like unlovable to judgmental, right? Self-compassion would just come in and say three things. This is adapted from the work of Dr. Kristin Neff. You might’ve heard me talk about it a bajillion times before.

Kayla (29:18)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Lily (29:35)

This might sound familiar,

but of course, it’s kindness. Of course I’m struggling. What might the of course statement sound like for you? Insert your context. Like, of course I’m struggling with this comparison to my friends who are getting matches because… ⁓

Kayla (29:52)

dating is hard.

Lily (29:54)

Dating is hard. What else?

Kayla (29:57)

I want everyone wants to feel Everyone wants attention and wants to feel

Lily (30:07)

It’s normal for me to feel this way.

normal that my brain defaults to comparison. That’s really hard.

Man, it’s tough when this is being a of course example, of course statement example, like of course I’m struggling with this because I was kind of taught that I needed to think my way out of every problem and fix every single thing, otherwise I’m not enough. Does that resonate?

Kayla (30:39)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Lily (30:43)

So inserting

your literal socialization, of course I’m dealing with this, not to victimize yourself, but to really normalize and neutralize like, whoa, this is really normal. Number one. Number two, ⁓ community over isolation. That’s what you were saying. A lot of people feel this way. I’m not alone. This is a moment of human suffering. This is just how human of me to compare myself to others. So normal.

Third and final, mindfulness over over identification. So this is basically like you’re having a thought that I’m wrong for being judgmental, or I’m wrong for having standards and preferences, or maybe I’m at fault. Mindfulness would say, whoa, my brain is serving me up a lot of stories that are not the truth.

Kayla (31:34)

Mm-hmm.

Lily (31:36)

Let me, I have in the past struggled with health anxiety. It exacerbated, ⁓ it was exacerbated over lockdown. Obviously for so many people, this is the case. I struggled with health anxiety. would keep them up until pretty recently, keep a detailed notes app with every single time I felt any physical sensation that wasn’t positive. I don’t know if you resonate with this. I…

Kayla (31:45)

Yeah, of course. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Lily (32:02)

chapter, detailed notes up, I was keeping it, I was logging it, I was measuring the number of days that I felt a little slight tickle in my throat, wondering if I needed it, right? And the thoughts my brain would serve up to me felt like facts. I’m sick, I got it from this exact place. This means I won’t be able to show up to this thing that I’m really looking forward to. It was like around the Tamron Hall Show when I was on the Tamron Hall Show a few years ago, I was like convinced that I was ill.

I wasn’t, I was okay, but I was convinced otherwise. One of the only things that really helped me to move through that health anxiety eventually, did it really imperfectly, is the practice of self-compassion and saying, whoa, my brain story is not fact.

Kayla (32:33)

Mm-hmm.

Lily (32:55)

I am dealing with a lot of really fearful distorted thoughts trying to keep me safe, how human of me. And then baby step reframe, it might be possible that I’m here and I’m okay right now. Like literally starting so baby step. It’s okay, I am here and I’m okay right now. When and if I’m not okay in the future, I have the tools to deal with it.

Kayla (33:13)

Yeah.

Lily (33:26)

or if that doesn’t feel true, it might be possible that maybe, maybe, at that point, I will know how to deal with it.

Kayla (33:33)

Mm-hmm.

Lily (33:34)

How is this feeling?

Kayla (33:36)

No, it makes sense. I do struggle with,

trusting that I’ll be able to handle something. Yeah.

Lily (33:45)

Yeah,

yeah. What’s an example then? Let’s create a stockpile of evidence. What’s an example of something that you’ve handled? Well, I would say I already have an example from your work life. Somebody was sending you asynchronous communication and it was not helpful to getting the job done and so you asked for your needs to be met. You handled that shit. Give me another example.

Kayla (33:59)

Yeah.

I used to have a lot of anxiety about, ⁓ like, driving and finding, driving to new places. I’ve been able to, like, work through that and realize that I, even if it doesn’t work out and I can’t find parking or what have you, ⁓ I’ve been able to handle it in the most-

Lily (34:17)

Yeah.

How?

Kayla (34:35)

probably practice. ⁓

Lily (34:37)

Yeah, what do you remind

yourself in that moment? Like what’s the new thought that you practice?

Kayla (34:42)

I think that it’s like, it’s not the end of the world and you’ll, like, you have the ability to figure it out.

Lily (34:51)

Yeah. Tell me about your friendships. Do you have like one or two close friends that you trust?

Kayla (34:57)

yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah.

Lily (35:00)

Might it be true that you have relationships and that it might be true that you can have a romantic relationship in the future, even if you have anxiety?

Kayla (35:15)

Maybe. Maybe. Yeah. I get. I said I get really hung up on the difference between like a romantic relationship and a friendship. Yeah.

Lily (35:16)

⁓ I’ll take that. I’ll take that. Maybe, maybe I really want you go ahead. You get what?

Makes total sense. You haven’t

had a romantic relationship yet. So of course your brain would struggle to imagine. I just want you to neutralize your inability to imagine it like in your head because it’s hard to imagine that which we have not experienced. That’s hard. So it’s more neutral than like, no, I can’t imagine it, therefore it must not be. It’s like, well, there’s a reason I can’t imagine it. And I’m open to starting to

Kayla (35:34)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Lily (36:01)

try to imagine it. What are the differences between the friendship in your brain? What’s the difference between friendship and romantic relationship? And why is it hard to imagine the romance?

Kayla (36:03)

Yeah.

I think it’s just a different level of intimacy, I think. and…

Lily (36:19)

Yep, yep.

Kayla (36:25)

more time spent together and probably just like a deeper relationship, more maybe just being more vulnerable.

Lily (36:29)

Yeah?

Hmm.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, not that you’re asking me, but I do think having been in a romantic relationship for eight years ⁓ and having been in bad relationships before, then having felt like I’m too late and too much and not enough at the same time and not, you know, like all those life experiences, I can say that my friendships feel deep in a different way than my romantic relationship.

Kayla (37:11)

Mm-hmm.

Lily (37:11)

and that the hierarchy of romantic relationship is the most important ever and nothing ever is coming close, I think that that’s a false hierarchy. I think relationships are more circular than that. So I would pass along like, maybe you haven’t experienced anything like a romantic relationship and intimacy wise, but.

Kayla (37:26)

Mm-hmm.

Lily (37:39)

Maybe that’s not right. You don’t know yet, because you haven’t been in it yet. And yeah, how does that land for you?

Kayla (37:45)

Mm-hmm.

No, that makes sense. I think it odd that a romantic relationship is seen as like the pinnacle. ⁓ But then I also on the flip side, to me, I think it feels like I just want to be someone’s person and seeing the people I’m closest with have their own person. It like

Lily (38:00)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

Kayla (38:19)

defaults you to not be a priority their first priority yeah yeah

Lily (38:23)

Right, right. Like the emergency contact. There’s one emergency

contact and am I someone’s emergency, is someone my emergency contact and vice versa. I totally get how that feels different. And I’m not trying to gaslight you or anybody into thinking like, you have friendship. So you shouldn’t want a romantic relationship. That’s not what I’m saying. It makes total sense that you want your person.

Kayla (38:33)

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, of course.

Lily (38:51)

And I’m just here to say that there’s a lot of conditioning that you’ve undergone and a lot of anxious thinking that has been practiced over and over and over again that has created the belief that you’re not coupled because you’re not lovable as you shared earlier.

And I’m here to say as an outside observer and expert in this area that I know to be true that you have not found love yet because you have not met the right person yet.

I also think I’ve been thinking a lot about like, you know, I got this comment the other day on TikTok that was like, there are no steps to find love. It’s all luck and timing. Or it’s all luck, they said. And I think that luck and timing play a role in getting anything in life. I also know there are two things that you are in control of that increase your opportunity to find the right relationship.

Kayla (39:37)

Mm-hmm.

Lily (39:55)

Proximity to aligned opportunities are the two things. Proximity to opportunity, to aligned opportunity, and behavior in the face of that opportunity.

Those are the two things you are in control of, proximity to opportunity and behavior in the face of that opportunity. So if we can clean those two things up and help you feel more courageous and less self-judgmental, then you’ll be moving forward toward the right relationship faster and with less mind drama. Does that make sense?

Kayla (40:27)

Mm hmm.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Lily (40:31)

So let’s talk about the strategy pieces. Let’s talk about like, let’s answer your brain’s question. Like that’s a drum beat I wanna put throughout all of this. Can I make the car payment? I don’t know. Let’s look at the numbers. Let’s answer your brain’s question, right? Like, can I afford this couch? I don’t know. Let’s answer your brain’s question. I love Ramit Sethi, the money expert. does the Netflix show, How to Get Rich, I think. I really like him. He’s a progressive guy.

Kayla (40:44)

Yeah.

Lily (40:58)

⁓ I’ve learned a lot about money through him. think like money wise, answer your brain’s questions. Like let’s get answers. Okay, I can’t afford the car that I want. Let’s figure out plan B. Okay, I can’t buy a house. Could I rent an amazing building or could I rent an amazing little cottage? Like, I don’t know, let’s figure it out.

There are so many people, you said I feel like a child in these ways, romantically, financially. You know there are so many people older than you by decades.

Kayla (41:29)

I do. do. I do. I know. Mm-hmm.

Lily (41:30)

who struggle. It’s not a judgment on them, it’s not a judgment on you. It’s just all fucking neutral.

And I get that our world that is so rife with comparison and capitalistic hustle culture would have you believing otherwise. But I’m here to tell you like, this is all clay. All of this is made up. So what do you want? And let’s go.

Okay, answer your brain’s question. Am I being too judgmental? Now, on a dating app, this is where strategy comes in. You’re looking for curiosity. You cannot be 100 % sure of attraction until you meet somebody, really. And so I would want you on a dating app to use the metric of, there pictures, do their pictures spark curiosity for me? Or do they spark like an it?

If they spark an ick, then it’s a no. If they are like, ⁓ I’m not totally like, I’m not 100 % like hell yes, but their bio or their prompt answers are well filled out, they look good, they spark curiosity as well. Curiosity from pictures, curiosity from bio and prompts, yes, let’s Matt, let’s go on to the next conversation level. Does that resonate?

Kayla (42:29)

Mm-hmm.

Mm hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, it does. I also think I ⁓ it’s like a if I’m going to be very like reflective about it, I think it’s a self protection mechanism to of like, if I’m I don’t want to say critical because I don’t think I am but I can always find something quote unquote wrong or not for me.

Lily (43:06)

Yeah.

Kayla (43:19)

Therefore, it makes me safe because then I won’t have to consider messaging this person or even down the line meeting them in person.

Lily (43:27)

Let me repeat back to you what you said in your application. Okay. My thought spiral is something like, what if he makes me feel uncomfortable? What if I can’t think of anything to say or ask? What if I say something stupid? What if he asks to meet? Do I say yes or no? ⁓ What if I do say yes, but I don’t recognize him and it’s awkward? Okay. Instead of…

Kayla (43:30)

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Lily (43:55)

Okay, here’s what I hear you currently doing. Looking at that list of questions and being like, I don’t know, man, and like backing up out of the room. What you’re doing there is removing yourself from the proximity of opportunity. Remember the two behaviors that get you closer to the right relationship, proximity to opportunity and behavior in the face of that opportunity, courage in the face of that opportunity, okay? It’s similar to how people feel about finances.

Kayla (44:01)

Yeah.

Lily (44:24)

Can I afford this car payment? I don’t know, man. ⁓ I’m just gonna try, right? And then, and I’ve been in this, you know, cycle as well of like, can I afford this program? Can I afford this coach? Can I afford this whatever? Like, I don’t know, man. Like either put it on a credit card or avoid it forever, right? Anxiety does wild things to us. So.

Kayla (44:28)

year.

Lily (44:46)

Let’s answer your brain’s questions one by one, okay? This will hopefully help you feel a little safer like the adult you, who is the oldest and wisest you’ve ever been is in the room. Cause younger you is kicked up here. I don’t know what I’m gonna do. I don’t know if I’m gonna be ready when it comes. I don’t know if I’m gonna be da-da-da-da-da-da-da. We need adult you to come sit beside her. She doesn’t need to get out of the car. She can be in the back seat.

Kayla (45:02)

Yeah, mm-hmm, definitely.

Lily (45:13)

but she needs to feel safe like adult you is figuring it out.

Right? It’s sort of like younger you was like, what am gonna do with my life? They don’t know, they’re spending out. They don’t know what they’re An adult you gets to come alongside and be like, hey, we have something we’re doing with our life and we’re still figuring it out and that’s okay. Your younger self doesn’t know that it’s safe to be in process of figuring these things out. So it’s adult you coming in and being like, no, it’s okay. It’s safe to ask these questions. Let’s answer that.

Kayla (45:20)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, definitely.

Lily (45:50)

Is this helpful? How does this feel?

Kayla (45:51)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, definitely helpful. Yeah.

Lily (45:54)

Okay, let’s go one by one, question by question. So what if I can’t think, what if he makes me uncomfortable? If this, that. If he makes me uncomfortable, then I will.

Kayla (45:56)

Okay.

as you say, bless and release. Yeah.

Lily (46:10)

Yeah, if he asks

me a question that is like really overtly sexual immediately in nature and that’s not my vibe at all, then I can immediately block him. Like I can, you can be really concrete with answering these questions. If this, then that. If he is explicitly sexual before we have consent, before I have consented to that, then it is an immediate block. If he asks me a question like, so why haven’t you been, you know.

Kayla (46:23)

Yeah.

Lily (46:36)

This is your worst fear, maybe, talking if you have this, but like, why haven’t you been in a relationship yet? What’s wrong? Or some people fear being asked, what’s wrong with you that you haven’t been in a relationship? If he asks this, then I can bless and release, because I can infer that this isn’t a supportive, curious person. Yeah, bless and release. Or I can answer, hey, just haven’t found the right person, that’s why I’m dating right now, just like you. You haven’t found the right person either, that’s why you’re dating.

Okay, so if he makes you uncomfortable, then you will.

Kayla (47:10)

block.

Lily (47:13)

block or bless and release or ask a follow-up question. I think those three options, depending on the circumstance, okay? Check, done. How does it feel to answer your brain’s questions? How is your anxiety specifically responding to it? And you don’t have to give me the answer you think I wanna hear, you can be honest.

Kayla (47:30)

I think it goes back to like self trust and,

And also like having, ⁓ like if this happens, then do this, like very concrete rules almost, I think is helpful because otherwise I spiral. Yeah.

Lily (47:43)

Yes, yes.

Absolutely.

self-trust is built in small moments and small choices first. It is not a one and done. It’s not either I have self-trust or I don’t. It is I’m making a plan for when and if I feel uncomfortable. And because I have this plan, I will choose to imperfectly follow this plan. And in choosing to follow this plan in a hard moment, I’m building self-trust.

Kayla (48:15)

Mm-hmm.

Lily (48:17)

Instead of, just don’t trust myself, I don’t know what to do. It’s like, well, let’s make decisions that help you build that skillset of self-trust. Sort of like getting, if you wanna run a marathon, you wouldn’t judge yourself for not being able to go out and flat out run a marathon tomorrow. You’d like, I know that I need to build reps. I need to build the skillset of running that many miles. Same, same with self-trust. It’s okay that I don’t have it right now. It’s painful sometimes, I wish I did.

But I’m here to build it.

Okay, what about the next question? What if I can’t think of anything to say or ask? What are you gonna do then?

Kayla (48:56)

panic and sweat. ⁓

Lily (48:59)

Yeah, sure.

What else? Panic sweat, that’ll probably be a part of it.

Kayla (49:04)

Yeah.

I don’t know even so ⁓ my family doesn’t communicate well and it’s something we’ve been talking about a lot well me my sister and I ⁓ so like when we’re home for holidays and things like that we literally write up questions ahead of time in our phones so we have something to bring up and ask and talk about force them to talk to us ⁓ so I definitely have gotten into that habit of writing down

Lily (49:21)

Mm.

Mmm, mmm. ⁓

Yeah. Yeah.

Kayla (49:39)

questions I’ve had of even just like social interactions with friends and stuff.

Lily (49:43)

So knowing that context, Kayla, how does it make complete sense that you, ushering in self-compassion, whoa, it makes complete sense that I would feel new to spontaneous conversation with new people because my parents don’t have this skill either. Who would have taught me?

Kayla (50:03)

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, that’s definitely something I’ve only very recently realized and I’m working on.

Lily (50:10)

Yeah,

I think all of us are just like, if we’re paying attention, noticing and untangling that which we’ve been passed down. Like, you know what I’m saying? Like you’re doing the work of untangling this past programming that says like, or this past normal stasis of we don’t talk. And you’re doing this with your sister, you have belonging there, you’re proactively addressing it. You’re saying, I’m gonna go to this family gathering. Your brain might have served up in the past.

Kayla (50:27)

Yeah. Yeah.

Lily (50:39)

What if we don’t, what if there’s nothing to say and we don’t know what to ask? And then you addressed it with, let’s prepare. Let’s write up questions. So how can we apply that to your dating life?

Kayla (50:52)

I guess, right. ⁓ Questions at a time?

Lily (50:56)

Have you read my book? Thank you more, please.

Kayla (50:59)

I’ve read part of it and then I was reading it through the library and I had to return it.

Lily (51:05)

Okay, got

it. So I want you to check it out again or buy it on ebook. I think it’s $12 if you have an ebook thing or ⁓ get it ⁓ at maybe a used bookstore has it, I don’t know, or even a regular bookstore if you can swing the cost, no pressure if not, but I think definitely check it out again from your library. Go to the matchmaker ⁓ chapter.

Kayla (51:13)

Mm-hmm.

Lily (51:34)

And I have a list of like 50 questions.

Kayla (51:38)

Okay.

Lily (51:39)

think it’s chapter four or chapter five, but I have a list of questions. So you could use any of those qualifying, disqualifying questions. And then you could also have on your notes app in front of you, like formula for asking a follow-up question is look at what they just said and ask a question about it.

Kayla (51:56)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lily (51:58)

or look at a

picture and say, random question, where were you in that picture? Yeah, so you have a formula and it’s no problem that you need a formula, you’re just getting yourself into this. So let’s answer the next question. So if I can’t think of anything to say or ask, I will have a list of questions that I can ask.

Kayla (52:02)

Yeah.

Lily (52:19)

What if I say something stupid? Okay, what then?

Kayla (52:23)

The anxiety part is like he’ll laugh at me and I’ll feel judged and it’ll be awkward.

Lily (52:28)

Yeah, what kind of person laughs at someone openly in kind of a laughing at you way, not with you way, right? What kind of person is that?

Kayla (52:33)

Yeah, not a person I should… Yeah.

Yeah, not someone I want to be around.

Lily (52:41)

If they

do that, they are not right for me. And I bless and release them.

Kayla (52:46)

Mm-hmm.

Lily (52:51)

It would hurt, but this is the part about self trust is like it would hurt and I might be able to get through it.

Kayla (52:59)

Yeah.

Lily (53:02)

Maybe, just maybe, I would have the relational skills to call a friend, call my sister, like journal, listen to a podcast episode to get through it. How human of me to fear rejection.

You cannot say the wrong thing to the right person.

Kayla (53:22)

Yes.

Lily (53:23)

If somewhat, do you believe me?

Kayla (53:25)

No, I do. do.

Lily (53:28)

Okay, great. You really can’t.

really want you to like, truly, you cannot fuck up the right thing for you. And that’s one of those things that like, you can look at evidence in your own life to maybe prove that to yourself. Or it might be like, well, I don’t have evidence yet, but I’m willing to try sort of like, ⁓ this.

this water and this lake, you’re standing at the precipice of a lake and your friends are in the lake and you wanna jump in, but you’re like, my God, how cold is this water? my God, my God, my God. You don’t know until you jump in. So like, you don’t know how you’re gonna handle this. You just gotta jump in and know that like, you’ll be able to float. You’ll be able to get it out of the water. You’ll be able to get, you know, get used to it or call a friend. Like you are resourced.

Okay, what if he asks to meet?

Then what?

Kayla (54:21)

I think it’s just pure panic. ⁓

Lily (54:24)

Okay, so in

the past when you have had panic about this work situation, let’s say, my God, I’m gonna send this message and they’re gonna be so mad at me because I sent this message and I don’t know. What helped you get from panic to action?

Kayla (54:40)

⁓

I think knowing in the long run that it would serve me.

Lily (54:48)

How can we apply that to this?

Kayla (54:51)

I think maybe it goes back to the self-trust and knowing even if it isn’t trusting myself to know if it’s right or wrong and then if I do meet with this person that no matter what happens it’s a learning experience for myself.

Lily (54:54)

Mmm.

How does that feel in your body when you say it? No such thing as a wrong answer. Yeah, yeah. What if…

Kayla (55:14)

makes me anxious. Yeah. You know when people say

like, I’m doing it for the plot. I don’t cannot relate. I don’t want to do that. No, no.

Lily (55:22)

Uh-huh, don’t do things for the plot. Yeah, well,

your safety behavior is really strong. And let’s neutralize it. There are some people who are totally risk averse and some people who are like, risk, bring it on. Right, think about starting a business, right? There are some people who are like,

Kayla (55:32)

Yeah.

Lily (55:46)

I need to have two years of my salary in the bank before I even think about starting a business. And here my ass is out here like starting a business with negative $10,000 at the bank, you know? So my risk tolerance was higher. I was like, what do I have to lose? Nothing, let me go for more, you know? And so it also depends on what you do perceive that you have to lose or what your perceived safety is physically, emotionally, right?

Kayla (55:57)

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Lily (56:13)

There’s a spectrum to behavior. It’s okay that you have in the past been more risk averse. That’s okay. just, right now I hear that you wanna shift this pattern and get in a lot, get in the proximity of more opportunity. And in the face of that opportunity, be a little bit more brave for yourself.

Kayla (56:28)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Lily (56:37)

so that you don’t stop opportunities before they happen.

cut off opportunities before they.

Kayla (56:45)

Yeah, definitely.

Lily (56:47)

So I would say, what if we, you you have anxiety navigation techniques, I think you probably know from your therapist, body movement really helps when you’re feeling anxious. Like if you were to have a date on the books, you can expect, I’m going to freak out about it. I’m going to panic about it. I am going to move my body. I’m going to sweat. I’m going to take some deep breaths. I’m going to do a meditation if that helps. I’m going to go to a Zumba class the night before.

to really like move my body, joyful, whatever it is that your anxiety support plan, that’s what you need to have in place before this date.

And then on the date, do I say yes or no? I mean, it depends on if you’re curious about the person at all. I think you need to have more dating experiences in your belt to prove to yourself that you can fucking do this.

Kayla (57:46)

Yeah.

Lily (57:47)

not just dates that are, you know, you have no interest in the person. You need to have curiosity. But I would encourage you to do this challenge for the next week. I want you to…

Number one, practice self-compassion every single day. In a five minute meditation or three deep breaths or a journaling session where you’re journaling out a self-compassion note, you can go to self-compassion.org for some free resources that Dr. Kristin Neff has made. I use them frequently for myself. Number one, self-compassion every day. This is your recipe. Number two, I want you to try to swipe on a dating app every day.

Kayla (58:07)

Mm-hmm.

Lily (58:32)

for 10 to 15 minutes.

I want you to know, you’re gonna see most people who are wrong, more people than not are gonna be wrong for you. They are neutral. They’re not for you. You don’t have to make it mean that there’s nobody out there for you. Those people on that flawed dating app who are being presented to you are not right for you. That’s okay. Notice the mind drama that comes up, breathe through it, remember our conversation, practice compassion. Of course I’m making up a story.

Kayla (58:41)

Yeah. Yeah.

Lily (59:07)

that this is all there is and I’m not gonna be attracted to anybody because today I didn’t see anybody I was attracted to. That makes sense, I’m here for you. It might be possible that maybe, maybe, we are increasing our proximity to opportunity and increasing our courage in the face of opportunity to what? Find the right person.

How’s this feeling? Talk to me.

Kayla (59:34)

good.

Lily (59:35)

So self-compassion every day, swiping 15 minutes a day. And I want you to send the first, whenever you get a match, I want you to say yes to more people than you normally do while you’re on there using the curiosity framework. Doesn’t have to be a sure thing, it just has to be curiosity. Nothing comes from nothing. So if you don’t feel anything, if you don’t feel any curiosity or any maybe, don’t say yes.

Kayla (59:37)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Lily (1:00:01)

Only say yes to curiosity and then any match that you get, open a conversation with one simple question of like, hey, name, what’s made you laugh hardest lately? What are you watching lately that you’re obsessed with? What books are you reading lately? Depending on what’s bringing you joy lately. Like those are the questions. Just standard qualifying, disqualifying questions. Start a conversation, see what happens. I dare you.

Kayla (1:00:28)

Mm-hmm.

Okay. Yeah.

Lily (1:00:31)

Okay, and then

finally, like, ⁓ what if I say yes, what if I do say yes, but I don’t recognize him and it’s awkward? What would you do? What’s the if, this and that to that?

Kayla (1:00:39)

Mm-hmm.

⁓ like then I’m an awkward, unlikable person, I think.

Lily (1:00:50)

Awkward and unlikable are not synonyms.

Kayla (1:00:56)

Logically, I know that.

Lily (1:01:02)

I think that a baby step that might be useful for you because your brain doesn’t believe it yet that you can be awkward and likable.

Kayla (1:01:08)

Yeah.

Lily (1:01:14)

I want you to back it up to start practicing a baby step thought that feels a little more useful and true. Okay? Because right now I’m awkward and unlikable and unlovable and that’s why I’ll never find a partner is running rampant. We need to catch it in the moment with love. Oof, I’m sorry you’re having that thought, right? Like imagine a trapeze person learning a trapeze trick.

Kayla (1:01:21)

Mm-hmm.

Lily (1:01:41)

They do not do it, they’re not raw dogging that shit without a net. They are expecting to fall and they have a net that actually like is buoyant. Like it’s catching them where they are. They’re expect, it’s not like you must be perfect and you must not fall when you’re learning. You’re gonna fall. You’re going to default into these old thoughts. You’re going to have negative thoughts come up. You’re going to have hard emotions come up. Catch it, lovingly acknowledge it. Hey, I’m having this old default thought that I’m awkward and unlovable.

Kayla (1:01:50)

Yeah.

Lily (1:02:10)

Acknowledge. A-C-K is what we’re doing. Acknowledge. C, compassion. How normal of me, how human of me. I’m not alone. It might be possible. Like my brain is just stirring up this really hard thought. A-C-K, kind reframe. It might be possible that maybe, just maybe, fill in the blank. Tell me what a kind reframe might be.

Kayla (1:02:33)

I guess maybe I can handle it even if it is awkward.

Lily (1:02:40)

Do you believe that? it feel useful and true?

Kayla (1:02:43)

⁓ yes.

Lily (1:02:46)

Okay, I might, even more baby step. It might be true that I have tolerated feeling awkward in the past and it has not killed me.

Kayla (1:02:49)

Mm-hmm.

Bye.

Yeah, that’s better. Yeah.

Lily (1:03:02)

Yeah, I could

sense that it was a little like a little lofty. We don’t want lofty when we’re building a new neural pathway. We want accessible accessibility. Don’t judge yourself for needing accessibility here.

Kayla (1:03:09)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Lily (1:03:17)

It’s okay that you need accessibility to ramp up into a new neural pathway. Everybody does. Everybody, more accessibility makes the world better on the whole, period, for everything. Blanket statement. Accessibility for your brain looks like choosing new thoughts in the kind reframe section, ACK, acknowledge compassion kind reframe.

When you’re having a hard thought, choose the most accessible, useful and true version. It might be possible that I’ve been awkward in the past and it hasn’t killed me. It might be possible that I’ve been awkward in some friend conversations and they have still wanted to be my friend.

Kayla (1:03:59)

Mm-hmm.

Lily (1:04:01)

It might be true that maybe, just maybe, other people feel awkward and they can have a conversation with a potential romantic partner or they can find love and maybe, just maybe, I can too.

Kayla (1:04:16)

Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Lily (1:04:17)

Okay?

So that’s a part of this is like rinse, repeat, act, A-C-K. Remember the like, you’re going to fall. You’re going after this conversation, you’re going to default into old patterns. Triage support for your body and nervous system. Shake your body, lay on the floor, put your legs up on the wall, take deep breaths, call a friend, talk to your therapist. Like triage yourself. You are resourced, okay? Answer your, I’m just recapping the session.

Kayla (1:04:43)

Mm-hmm.

Lily (1:04:46)

Answer your brain’s questions. The financial example is great because it’s a little more neutral than the dating example. I don’t know if I can afford this certain car payment. I need a new car. Okay, well, let’s figure it out. Let’s answer your brain’s question.

If you have questions about your dating life, like, I gonna be too awkward? Answer your brain’s question.

What do I do if they ask me out? Answer your brain’s question. What if I go into an anxiety spiral and I get stuck? What’s your plan? Answer your brain’s question. If you had a notes app with like, to be honest, when I struggled with health anxiety, that ⁓ note that I had in my notes app of like, ⁓ I’m not feeling okay. And then I had like every category of my health. I mean, it’s very intense. don’t use, I don’t need to use it anymore.

At that time, it helped me know when to call a doctor. It helped me, I had an if this, then that plan. If this lasts for more than X days, then I do X. So it helped me not continue to spiral and instead say, I can trust that I have a plan and I’m going to follow the plan. Right? Keeping a notes app of like, if this, then that. If I feel awkward, then I do ACK.

Kayla (1:05:53)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Lily (1:06:10)

If

I am spiraling, then I have this menu of three things, excuse me, that I can do next. If I am on a dating app and I don’t get a match one day, then I choose to think this. If I do get a match and I wanna throw my phone across the room and never answer because I’m so nervous, then what am going to remind myself? What’s my why here? Who am I becoming? Because, Kayla, you are becoming the version of yourself who…

Kayla (1:06:36)

Mm-hmm.

Lily (1:06:40)

goes after what they want, and who doesn’t have to apologize for it. That’s who you’re becoming. And inevitably you get more of what you want because of that energy and because of that main character energy. How’s this feeling?

Kayla (1:06:57)

Yeah, it makes sense. I like the idea of the having like a reference of like, if this happens, do this. That’s helpful.

Lily (1:07:08)

Correct, yeah. If

I’m in comparison, you can listen to this episode as many times as you need to when it comes out. If I’m in comparison, then this is what I do. Expect to, you’re learning how to do a trapeze act, expect to fall and have this as a net catch you to start to build the skill of self-trust.

Kayla (1:07:31)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lily (1:07:33)

How is this feeling?

Kayla (1:07:36)

Good. Yeah.

Lily (1:07:39)

Say more.

Kayla (1:07:41)

logically, it all makes sense. I think it’s, I’m so in my head all the time that I think it’s like, well, I even remember to do that. ⁓

Lily (1:07:53)

Yeah,

you won’t. How about that? Like, whoa, we’ve talked about a lot. We’ve been on the phone for over an hour. Like, I’m not going to remember all of this. That’s a kinder, more compassionate, accurate.

Kayla (1:07:57)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Lily (1:08:09)

response that you can, I’m afraid I’m not gonna remember all this. You won’t. So.

Kayla (1:08:13)

Yeah, the perfectionism

is real high.

Lily (1:08:17)

Yeah,

so if this, that. If I am not gonna be able to remember all of this, then I will just do what I can with what I have remembered. And then when the episode comes out, I’ll literally have a transcript to pull out and have a bullet pointed list for my new notes app.

I do think that you will remember the things that are most urgently important for you right now to pursue what you want. I do want you to remember our challenge for the next week, self-compassion and swiping every day with the curiosity framework. Shoot your shot, bless and release quickly when someone makes you uncomfortable. That’s it. Okay? And I want an update. I’m nosy. I want an update. I want to hear how it goes. And my goal for you is to get you out on a date in the next month.

Kayla (1:08:50)

Mm-hmm.

Got it. Yes. Yes.

Lily (1:09:11)

Okay, that’s the goal, to center your desire. All right, Kayla, thank you so much for this session. I know that it will help so many people and I’m really grateful that you decided to come on and allow yourself to be vulnerable. And I cannot wait to hear the updates. This is just the beginning, absolutely.

Kayla (1:09:11)

Okay. Okay.

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Lily (1:09:34)

Thank you so much, Kayla, for coming on the podcast and for sharing your story. I do not take it lightly that you and others have decided to allow yourself to be vulnerable and supported in this podcast. And I’m so grateful that you came on and allowed yourself to be coached and supported. I’m so excited to hear your…

thoughts that came up after this podcast, any updates. So let’s get into your update.