In this vulnerable and wisdom-packed episode, Lily sits down with Liz, a former Main Character Dating client, to talk about what it really takes to come back to yourself after a heartbreaking, sudden breakup—and how that healing work can lead to the most aligned love of your life.

Together, they discuss:

• Why we feel “behind” in dating (especially as queer late bloomers)

• The emotional labor we carry as single people and how to release it

• How to trust yourself again after a breakup or identity shift

• The shame-desire cycle and how to break it

• Liz’s journey coming out later in life and finding queer love with deep emotional resonance

• What self-trust really looks like after pain

Whether you’re newly single, starting to date again, or exploring your sexuality later in life—this conversation will meet you with compassion, truth, and the reminder: you’re not too late, and you don’t have to settle.

Work with Lily: 

3 Steps to Attract the Right Partner as a Late Bloomer
If you’ve felt behind in dating, this free training is for you. Learn how to:

• Release embarrassment and claim what you really want

• Attract dates without overthinking or scarcity

• Build a joyful, unbothered dating strategy rooted in feminist self-trust

RSVP here- https://www.datebrazen.com/training

Learn about Main Character Dating: datebrazen.com/dating

Book: Thank You More Please

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 Instagram

Show transcript:

Lily @ Date Brazen (00:00.418)

Hey gorgeous friend, let’s take inventory of every single piece of emotional labor you’re doing in your dating life, okay? Check off each one if it resonates with you. Number one, dating app conversations, you’ve kept going even though you’re only getting one word answers in return. Vigilant scanning at every grocery store, workplace mixer, yoga class for the cute single people who might be right for you. Second, third, fourth dates you’ve been on even though you know it’s not a good fit.

caregiving for every single friend, coworker, family member after work because you’re the single one with more time available. All this emotional labor is exhausting. And it’s so normal because of our collective patriarchal conditioning to care give, to be valuable, especially when you’re not partnered. That’s what I was taught. If you’ve been hustling in your dating life and settling for crumbs and settling for a dating life that feels miserable, I just want you to know that this unnecessary emotional labor

is optional and it’s also a version of settling. And I’m here, I’m here in the Date Brazen podcast to help you never settle again. So that’s why this episode of the Date Brazen podcast is brought to you by my brand new training, which is coming up on August 13th, that is live and is going to change the trajectory of your dating life for good. It is called Three Steps to Attract the Right Partner as a Late Bloomer.

If you feel behind in any way in your dating life, whether you’ve never been in a relationship or you just got out of a 30 year relationship and you don’t freaking know where to start, if you feel behind in any way, this training will help you attract a feminist partner with main character energy. In this live training, you’re gonna learn three things. You’re gonna learn how to release embarrassment and claim everything that you want, even if you’ve never been in a relationship or you just got out of a long-term one.

to magnetize the right people and disqualify the rest. You’re gonna learn how to actually attract dates and bless and release the wrong people with ease and without scarcity and mind drama. And three, you’re gonna learn how to build an unbothered joyful dating strategy that eliminates overthinking and overwhelm and attracts the right partner to you. You can RSVP with the link in the description of this episode. This training is going to change the trajectory of your dating life for good.

Lily @ Date Brazen (02:19.798)

and I cannot wait to support you inside. And on August 13th, doors open just for the people who joined me at this live training for my amazing signature group coaching program called Main Character Dating, which if you aren’t up on the recent news, it is formerly the brazen breakthrough. We are now Main Character Dating and the doors open only to the people who register for this training on August 13th. Doors open the next day for everybody else.

And I can’t wait to support you on August 13th. So get your butt in the door to this training. It is free. The link is in the description. And I’m so delighted that this training is sponsoring today’s episode of the podcast.

Lily @ Date Brazen (03:05.87)

Hey, I’m Lily Wonville, former top matchmaker and founder of Date Brazen. After setting up hundreds, I realized that with coaching, could match themselves better than anyone else ever could. With my unconventional feminist approach, I’ve helped women around the world build courageous and self-trust-filled love lives, and now I’m here to support you. Get ready, because I’m about to share the exact steps you need to attract a soul-quenching partnership and feel amazing about yourself along the way. This is the Date Brazen podcast.

Coming on today, I was noticing how clear and like good I was feeling because when I went on last time, last March in 2023, I was still with Sid and coming onto this podcast, my body like knew something was happening. Like I felt tension. I felt like, ooh, I’m, you know, I’m speaking my truth here, but also I’m kind of like keeping something at bay that like I don’t want to feel.

And then a month later it ended. And so it’s like, but here I sit here and I’m like, I’m clear. I’m fully myself. Let’s talk. It’s a really interesting thing to notice. So thanks for having me on because it helps me heal and process too. And I hope it, I hope sharing some of this helps somebody else too, honestly. That’s why. listeners, we just dove right the fuck in. This is Liz. She is a former client in what was called the brazen breakthrough now is called main character dating.

And we just made that change Liz, just to let you know. We actually announced it to the public today. So this is amazing timing. You you came on the podcast Liz in March, 2023 and you, we’ve talked like online since then and before then. And I think you, you’ve been so generous after working together to share about your experience, but why I sent you a DM to come back on to do another part to our conversation is that

so many people are struggling after a breakup to trust themselves again. I love that you shared in the last episode that you were on that there was this like dichotomy of like, I’m sharing my truth, and I feel like something’s, something’s happening that I’m not really in control of or aware of. And so that relationship didn’t work out. And it was

Lily @ Date Brazen (05:28.558)

I think a little like a surprise to you. Yes. Yes. How that happened. can share real quick if you want me to. Whatever you’re comfortable sharing. Yeah. Yes. All that is true. So yeah, last March I was on and then I was engaged and we were, you know, I’ve done all the things like I’m a pretty like on it kind of girl. I’m like, okay, let’s go to counseling. I am a counselor. So I’m like, hey, we’re going to process this, da da da, all the things. And we were engaged. We were, you know, felt really good.

And then I really did start to shift in March. felt something inside and I know now what it was, but I didn’t know then. But so then at the time I felt something shift. And then in April, on April 20th, she had come through different conversations that had happened before. I knew things were a little rocky, but she had come home and within like 15 minutes she sat down and she was like, she was late to something that I needed to leave for and wasn’t really like apologetic. And I was like, this isn’t good.

And she sat down and within 15 minutes was just like said a few things like basically like I’m not happy. I can’t marry you and doing more work on myself would be leaving myself. And I was like, wow. Okay. So, and it’s surprisingly, I was like calm because it was almost like the storm had come in and I was in the center of it. And you’re just like, like, cause that’s what I had been feeling and probably pushing through. And it was finally said out loud, like,

And I’m the type of person that if someone doesn’t want to grow, we’re not going to work. So I didn’t even have an argument. I was just like, how long have you known this? It was almost like kind of felt kind of like peaceful and serene in shock for sure. But it kind of came out that way. And then within a half hour she left and we divvied up stuff. And then I started my healing journey. Wow. I love your love story with yourself first.

whoever you love, I am like, team Liz. Thanks. I know you are. love it, Lily. I appreciate it. I thought of you for the podcast because I look around and I’ve worked with so many queer women, bi women, gay women, and popular, like there are a lot of like straight love stories that I have shared and I’ve shared your story obviously, but I wanted to give an update because you have a woman in your life who you

Lily @ Date Brazen (07:45.888)

love and adore now who is aligned and we will get into that and how you started dating after that breakup. But I also wanted to come like bring on the podcast to be like, my God, coming into yourself with this deeper work and allowing yourself to be yourself through this work led to so much freedom in your life has led to so much freedom in my life. And I wanted to share, you know,

more queer love on this podcast as well. So that was another intention. Thanks, Lily. Thanks for saying that. I feel like, yes, I remember I’ve told so many people this, when we did the group coach or the one-on-one coaching calls back in like, I think we met in 2020, right? Like, yeah. Yeah. was when, yeah, there’s not one-on-one right now in the program, but back then there was some. were, we were building. I like I got the like, the Lily experience. I loved it. And

I remember when I first verbalized ever, was like, I think I’m attracted to females 25 % of the time. And then you’re like, that’s okay. Like, I get it. That’s great. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, okay, because I grew up in a super evangelical community. And I mean, I still love Jesus. And I’m able to parse out a lot of that stuff and noise now. So I’ve done a lot of work there. So yeah, I think it all came full circle. So this program was super helpful to me.

to name stuff for myself. And then I think I came to noticing, like, especially people that come out later in life. And I don’t want to put this on everybody, but someday I seriously will write a book on this. There’s like developmental delay to dating even in the queer community, think, especially depending on like how far it had to get shut down for you to own yourself and name it and bring it out and live fully. So I have noticed this more and more and more. So

I kind of feel like this relationship I was in last time, it would have been like a relationship I would have been in college and maybe they’ve gone our own ways after. But instead I was 36 and I was like, let’s get married, you know, like, because I love you and you love me and let’s start a life and a family and all that. I think looking back, that’s what it really felt like. It’s just a different dynamic to it a little bit. think that, you know, I’ve been

Lily @ Date Brazen (10:04.696)

thinking about this term late bloomer a lot, like thinking about it, noodling on it, journaling about it, because so many of my clients who, like, so many of my clients identify as a quote, late bloomer, whether you’re coming out later in life or you haven’t dated very much at all, or you have dated, but now you’re realizing, my God, all of that dating experience that I had was through this lens that doesn’t belong to me anymore, or through this like,

set of rules that doesn’t feel resonant at all to me anymore. in some way, everybody that comes to this program, that comes to do this work with me, is identifying as like behind. I just want to lay this like quilt of understanding across all of our laps that like, why would we feel on top of this part of our lives? Because

For most of us, whoever you date, whoever you love, obviously this is amplified for folks with marginalized identities, people who are queer, people who had to be physically safe, couldn’t come out until later in life, to be emotionally safe, couldn’t come out. Obviously it’s exacerbated for that group and so many other groups. However, the thing that unites everybody in this work is this idea of like, I was taught to date in a way that made me shrink.

or I wasn’t even taught how to date, and I’m just doing this on default through all this patriarchal conditioning. And so I think this idea of developmental delay that you share is actually much more universal and obviously exacerbated for folks who had to come out later in life. But I wondered what your thoughts were on all that. Yeah, totally. mean, I think everything you’re saying, I mean, just yes, right? I think how it would…

I have a lot of friends who similarly would go through those processes later or got married later in life or still aren’t married and don’t want to be. And that’s totally fine. I’m just saying like, Or they’re in their second marriage or like they didn’t see what they wanted in their first. Like it’s so much more universal. And clients coming and they’re like, we, yeah, there’s all these questions based on these rules, right? That’s it. Yeah. That’s it. Like whatever, wherever people are at in relationships.

Lily @ Date Brazen (12:17.574)

And I do think that in my experience, something that I found really helpful was noticing like how I want to feel on that date with somebody because that’s the delay that I had personally was I didn’t pay attention to my feelings because I was taught to push those down because they were bad. So where like being in a same sex relationship for me, it was like, no, that’s bad. You’re codependent. You’re unhealthy. You’re you know, there are all these labels given. So I pushed it down.

And so that feeling on a date, I didn’t really experience. So when I came to date brazen and one of the first parts is like, how do want to feel on your date? And I was like, I’m sorry, Like, yeah. So I think that was where for me, I felt that disconnect of all I’ve been trying to go out with all these guys. Some of them are attractive, like it’s fine, but I can only go so far because I’m not able to fully connect. And I didn’t put that together truly until we talked. Yeah. Well, tell me this Liz, how do you not that we have to

label our sexuality. Nobody has to. How do you and do you identify with a sexuality like where you’re at? I kind of I do identify as bisexual. I still do. It’s a continuum and it can ebb and flow. Obviously, that’s how I think about it. But I do feel like I lean toward more emotional connection with females. It’s a little easier for me and more natural and that depth like my god, that’s why I can go deeper there.

So just putting that all together. Yeah, so I love, but I love being able to like embrace that and like, I just opened it up to try it out, right? In 2021. And then obviously I met Sid and then that’s when I would say, that opening up was like, I went to college and I’m free now. And I’m being my own person. And then I met someone at that same place and we were just 35, you know, 36. So. I ask because I do know that like our sexuality

grows and changes and shifts. Like I remember my therapist blew my mind like seven years ago, eight years ago when I was still like figuring out my own sexuality and figuring out like unlearning so much of my internalized homophobia that I had learned growing up in Alabama. And you know, I remember viscerally seeing a, so at my middle school, it was like the biggest insult if you were called gay or a lesbian.

Lily @ Date Brazen (14:41.774)

And it was, you know, like, and that like, you’re that’s so gay was like, you know, that’s uncool, you know, insults. And I know most of you listening are like, yeah, Lily, we all we all went through this. Maybe hopefully you didn’t or maybe you did. So I remember when one of my schoolmates who I wasn’t really friends with, she was very popular, was labeled by her friend group as a lesbian because she didn’t talk about boys enough.

And who knows what her sexuality is, was, I just remember her walking up the stairs. remember it like learning that it happened. Remember her walking up the stairs from the like guidance counselor’s office because she was sobbing and none of her friends wanted to be her friend anymore because she was labeled gay. And they were making fun of her for this thing. And I just, I remember having feelings of curiosity about girls and, you know, like having like,

feelings of crushes, but actually never labeling it as a crush and actually shoving it down because I saw the social ostracization. I don’t know how to say that word that occurred. And that internalized homophobia rocked my sense of self until I was in like my mid-20s, late 20s. So I remember seven, eight years ago, my therapist, I was like really worried about like, who am I? Like, what is my sexuality?

Who am I attracted to? I was dating Chris at the time. What does it mean that I have attraction to women and I didn’t date women very much before I met Chris and Chris and I are in a monogamous relationship and how do I figure out what this is? And I am attracted to men so much and what is like, I had no examples of bisexuality growing up. There was no example of like.

It was either you were gay or straight, and if you were gay, you were made fun of, and if you were straight, you were normal. Like, such utter bullshit. My therapist was just like, you know, Lily, there’s studies that show that women’s sexuality actually changes over time and ebbs and flows, and on the Kinsey scale, you can be more toward just attracted to one gender or both, you know, at any given point. Yes. You can shift, and there’s no static.

Lily @ Date Brazen (17:06.144)

anything with our sexuality. So why would you be putting yourself into a box at all? Just like, what would the most freedom filled way of examining this look like, you know? And so that’s what I wanted to pass along to you when I remember the voxer, I remember the message when I said this in the last podcast, maybe I remember where I was, I was like down this street right here when you said like, I think I’m into women.

I was like, awesome, me too, let’s go. Like, so fun. Yeah, I just wanted to share that. I don’t know if I’ve shared any of that on the podcast. Witnessing your story of coming out to yourself and to others was an honor of my lifetime because it was not only you coming out to yourself and doing that courageous unlearning and learning, it was you breaking up with systems of oppression that were oppressive. Literally.

you had so much in your life that did not align and you did so much work to get aligned. Thank you so much for saying that. Yes. I feel like I just went on a journey with you. I see you were staring because I was like, yes. Thank you for saying that. Absolutely. And I think when you said that middle school story, like, I had that story. Like, yeah.

I was really athletic too. So anyway, I was just relating. like, yes, I remember all the shame and like, no one wants to feel that. So we just like, yeah, move away from, you know, figure it out, protect ourselves. And yeah, totally. And I did it by people pleasing, right? Like I was the golden child in churches. I was the golden child in places I was in. I was the star athlete and like went to a Christian school for college and play basketball. So yeah, it was like, I just like embrace this like goodness of myself of how people.

it and shut the rest down. when I talked to you and you said that and I believed you, was like, because I was there and then you were so real. It was like, yes, okay, this is my next work for myself. And I already knew that because I joined Daybracing. yeah, so thanks for sharing all that and saying it. Absolutely. Well, and it’s so fun that Essence-based preferences helped you realize how you wanted to feel and who you wanted to be around. I want to get to now

Lily @ Date Brazen (19:27.318)

some meat and potatoes that of the question a lot of people are asking themselves listening to this, is, my God, I just went through a really shitty breakup. How the hell am I ever supposed to pick up the pieces or how the hell am I ever supposed to meet somebody? Like, what if that was it? Like all of those questions. How did you deal with the season after your breakup and how did you start dating again and ultimately meet?

this amazing person that you’re with now. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Well, I don’t have any perfect answers to this, but I do want to like, I do want to share. think what that was like for me, if that’s okay. duh, I want it all. Okay. So what happened for me? And I think, again, so I’m a counselor, right? So I have this like dual awareness. I’m like walking people through things and going through it myself. Right. And

It’s like always doing my work because if I don’t, then I’m not able to walk people through things too, right? But it’s back and forth. It’s this whole vessel thing. So I think for me, it was truly, truly, truly. I think this was kind of the culmination of realizing and I couldn’t stop it. I had to fully feel all my pain. God, stop right there. How important and hard is that? my God.

How did you, people are asking, how did you feel all of your pain and you’re a therapist counselor or like, so you do this with your clients probably, but like, how do you feel your pain and not worry or feel like it’s never gonna end? my gosh. Yeah. Okay. Here’s what I did. There’s no counselor hat in this space because it was like pure survival. was like, I was like, okay.

I don’t even know what just happened in my life. How do I get groceries? Like it was like, know, like, yeah, because it happened so quick. And so for me, immediate pain hit and what that looks like was just getting incredibly honest with myself. And it was like there was no more filter. There was no more disconnect between that thing that I was so afraid of, which

Lily @ Date Brazen (21:44.662)

I know everyone has those different pieces, but for me, I realized I was so scared of being abandoned. That was my deepest childhood. And so was like, here it came. I’m like, holy crap. So it came and I was reflecting back for our conversation today and I realized something that I hadn’t realized until last night was I became my own empathic witness. So yeah.

Tell us more. So what they say, think it’s Gabor Matei. wrote lots of books on great, great stuff. he’s counselor minded. I think he a show on Netflix now too. But anyway, so he says that trauma is not just the incident that happens, but it’s what happens to us without the presence of an empathic witness.

Wow. So like isolation is inherent with experiences of trauma. Yeah. Like, yeah. That makes sense. So going through what happened, that breakup was traumatic. Like that’s very true. We were engaged. Like that’s like, to me, I’m so loyal. I’m like, that’s basically marriage to me. Right. so and that’s everybody and that’s fine. But for me, it was like that. And so for that to happen felt like this huge betrayal trauma. Right. For me. Yeah.

being with that happened within like 45 minutes and gone. was like felt like pure abandonment. Like, wow. And so and I now have their names for that, like avoidance and things like that, which we can talk about another time. But I do think that that that specific incident was like trauma. Well, what happened was I realized I have done a lot of work on myself, but I was these parts of me, these really strength parts of me that I use for other people actually came out for myself.

So like I saw myself, I was like, wait, I need support, right? Like that’s empathy. I reached out to friends and within an hour, three people were at my house or two people were at my house and they were like, Liz, what? Like, I didn’t even know what I needed. They’re just like, we’re gonna throw some things away. Here’s some food. I was like, thank you. So like allowing that immediate empathy and then throughout time, like I just had spaces where I would like go to counseling. I went to counseling weekly for a while. I talked to my friends.

Lily @ Date Brazen (24:04.696)

like my really, really close friends where I would just like guttural cry by myself. Stuff had to come up and out of my body, you know, and it was deep, deep, deep. But I realized that it wasn’t just like going nowhere. Like maybe my fear was right. Like it wasn’t just not going to go like going out there into nothing and no one cared. I was there for myself and I had a couple of really good friends who did not judge me and I could get it out. Anything my pain that I could cry and that empathy.

It healed me, really. That empathy healed me. Whoa. I love this. And I love that you are sharing. I mean, I think this is so good. You’re the way that you put crying by myself even was me being having my own back. Like was me like like and you called upon support, which is you having your own back. Right. It wasn’t like.

other people were in control of healing you or that you needed them to like you were in the driver’s seat and like really asking for what you needed and taking up space in your healing journey. I think that that’s so powerful. Yes. Yes. And I didn’t know it then. Right. So like I was like, I’m being known empathically. None of this language was coming out. If people hear that, you know, it’s like, but that’s exactly it. It’s like the thing that we need we have. And I realize it. Oh, wow.

again, like hoping this is helpful also for somebody here because I think it’s my deepest fear was that no one would show up because that’s what I got emotionally. And then guess what? I showed up and these people showed up. And so there’s healing that just happens, I think, by being so honest and allowing that pain to come up and out. And it doesn’t last forever. But let me tell you why I framed it. So because I’m like a sports person. So this is how I had to think. was like immediately I was like after like letting some of this out, like the same day with a friend, I was like,

have to make a structure or I’m going to sink. So I did, I’m like, okay, three days, I’m going to make it three days and then I’m going to check in. So I’m going to just do what I need to do, like three days. It was basically the weekend, right? And then three weeks. Okay, three weeks, I’m going to get a little bit of a rhythm back. I’m going to see more clients. I’m going get back, I’m going to get a little rhythm back. And then three months. And at the end of that three months, I was going to feel like,

Lily @ Date Brazen (26:27.66)

my goals. have goals in there. Like it wasn’t like clear and concise, like Liz will do this. It was just like my my heart was moving me forward and I had to frame it to check in with myself so I didn’t feel like I was becoming a blob or that emotion was taking over so much that I didn’t check in. So that was really helpful. And I came to that by again, letting the pain out, not by holding it in. Like as I was saying that, as I was like crying, I was like, I need something. Right. And it came out.

How many times did you do the three day check in before you could do the three week check in? Do you remember? Yeah. So I basically made it through again that weekend. I was like, okay, I am a person. That was step one. Does that make sense? Yeah. And I am a person. I am online. I live in a home. like it was orienting. I was reorienting. Right. Yes. I have a dog who was so sad. was crying at the window every night. That was like really hard.

If anyone has like, I’m sure with kids, I can’t imagine so much, but it’s just like a whole thing. it was like watching my emotion come out of me and my animal as well. So I’m sure there’s some parts to that that we’re healing. My God, you’re so empathetic. Yeah. But anyway, so that happened. So it was like, hey, here I am. And then obviously there were money things involved, all kinds of stuff like that. So the next three weeks were practical. It was like, put my feet on the ground. And then I think looking back, it was like practical, just like, okay, change your bank account.

You know, I’m just being really honest, like figure stuff out, sort the thing, stuff has to leave the house, reclaim my space more, start doing that. And that’s how I had to do it. And then, and then I also was going to counseling and those three months were for all my emotions. I was like, they just get to come out. They get to come out for three months and I don’t, they just, they’re coming out and I let that happen, which.

It’s good to hear you say that. Like it really was a lot of allowing it to happen and not falling back into like, I mean, people, please let me do this. Let me shove it down. Let me placate whatever. So I let it out and what ended up happening. this leads to another thing I was like thinking about. What ended up happening was, I like within two months, I was like, this sounds so absurd, but it’s true. Within two months, I felt like I really felt to my core, like, I feel like I want to like see who’s out there.

Lily @ Date Brazen (28:47.512)

Yeah. And I had shame around it because in my head there was this thinking, shouldn’t I wait six months, a year? Isn’t that what people do? Yes. This is so important to just like note and like people put a pin in it because I get so many questions after people have breakups. Is it too soon to date again? Is it too soon? And nobody knows the answer but you, which is so tough. You’re I think in that moment you’re just like,

looking for somebody else to have better answers than you feel that you have because there’s a fundamental lack of self-trust happening maybe after the breakup because the breakup happened and you thought I trusted them and it happened how could I ever trust myself again? how did so yeah I love that you’re mentioning there was like the desire and then there was shame cloaking the desire which I want to call back to the desire to open your dating pool up to women and the shame that was cloaking that right so there we have

this pattern I think that all of us have learned, especially those of us who have been socialized as women, the pattern of desire, shame, desire, shame, desire, shame, and the work of our lives is releasing the shame from the desires the desire can just be. Yes. Mic drop. Yes. No, that’s it. And I think there’s fear for me. There’s fear in that because then it’s like, well, what do I do? Like if I’m outside of

these bounds that I’ve known, then am gonna mess up? Am I gonna screw this? So shame is there to keep us safe. It’s sort of like being on the soccer field and wearing a blindfold and relying on somebody else to guide you around. then shame is like, wait, I can just take off the, I can go where I wanna go. And I don’t have to have this structure.

telling me power over, like telling me how I should behave. I don’t have to have this person telling me I should be doing it this way. I can actually like take off my blindfold and start like running on my own. And it might feel a little bit like a baby giraffe. Yes. In the process. giraffe are cute though, so that’s good. Yeah, no, I agree. At that two month point, I was like, my gosh, and all the shame, like you said, desire hit and then shame. That pattern is powerful. That’s a really good insight, Lily. Thanks for sharing that. I’m like, yes.

Lily @ Date Brazen (31:04.076)

The thing for me was like, think it got labeled to me, my counselor was like, you have some magical thinking. I was like, huh? Tell me more about magical things. And she was like, there is like you had just said, there is no exact timeline. is no, there is no like perfect amount of time that you can wait, assure you that you will be in this healthy relationship. Like, and when she said magical thinking, I was like, no, it’s not. This is practical.

You know what mean? I’m like, this is about time, people. I’m not in the stars. But I think that is true. And something I’ve learned, if any of us grow up with like emotionally immature parents in any way, we can develop this as a means to have safety and control. If I do it this way, or if I am available to this time, like we try to find something we can control to make us feel safe. And for me, that was time. Like I’ve always been like that. And I was like, I did everything perfectly this last time I thought. And it didn’t work. So I’m like, all right, we’re going to go with

intuition now. Here we go. And then that’s when I did get on hinge. So I use the same one that we had used. I really like hinge. So that’s me for online dating. But I got on hinge because I didn’t know if tell me pausing Do you remember if you like revisited your essence based preferences? If you like thought about your qualifying, disqualifying questions like we taught in the program, like tell me more about that question. Yes, that is a big detail. Yes. So before I did any of that, I actually

I went back and for me, just wrote down like, it sounds so basic, but it’s true. I’ve done this a million times before, but I wrote down my must haves and my absolutely knows, but it wasn’t, it wasn’t like six foot, whatever, you know I’m saying? Like hair color and all that. It was literally like very, very clear things to me that had come from what had just happened and what I knew did not work for me. And I didn’t know as clearly.

And so I would say I went back to those as essence based preferences and I completely, I listed them and I told a couple of friends and I said, I’m saying this out loud because I know for myself, like I need that and I’m so serious. So yes. Cool. Love that. So you got back on hinge and then I use my disqualifying qualifying question again. It’s my favorite. It’s my favorite. I tell clients this all the time. I don’t know. I’m like,

Lily @ Date Brazen (33:27.544)

go read her book, go listen to podcasts. this is like, listen, just because that was really like important to me to like do that. It’s just a heart space. And it’s an intuitive space. And that’s how I’m wired. So it’s super helpful. So anyway, I got back on. And initially, I didn’t like quite deep dive yet into that. I was just like, well, anyone out here, I thought what anyone out here actually wants to date me, I was engaged and it broke off like that felt different than like dating for me.

because it was like, trusted people trusted me right in this decision and I trusted myself so back to your self trust. So then I like was like, well, I just need to do this for myself to see like what this feels like. And so I got back on and I was met with such kindness from people. There were people that’s amazing. Someone was just like one person had, you know, chatted with me and they were just like, you know, opening it up. I was like, yeah, I was like, I’m very honest. I was very open, very honest. Just like, hey, I’m just on here after a

you know, broken engagement, just kind of checking things out to see about just like, you know, dating people, getting back into it. And she was so kind. I was like, that’s all I needed. So then I got off for a couple of weeks, you know, because I was like, yeah, that was just helpful. And then when I got back on, I got back on maybe like two and a half ish months later, like from the breakup, so maybe a couple of weeks later. And because I had processed it with my counselor and all this stuff. And I was like, I really feel ready. I really, and I don’t know how.

but I have done I feel like I’m at the point where I would like to step back into this like to continue my so good. Yeah, so I did. And I do think it took a lot of courage. don’t think it felt like courage at the time. But it did it was I think looking back but it was so helpful to me. Because I had shown up for myself. I knew what I had in my life then and then as I stepped into it, I was so clear like there wasn’t like

For me, was like, there wasn’t like time to just be like, yeah, I forgot that happened or how this happened. It was like so fresh that whoever I met, like, you know, it was really gonna be like, does this work or not for me? You know what I mean? So it was, and not in a black and white way, just in a very like essence, like, does this qualify to be for me kind of a thing. And I met Lynn. How did you know that it was different for you?

Lily @ Date Brazen (35:48.876)

I think this is a good question because this is one of those that like, it will still ping for me. Like, what do people think about this? Like kind of a thing, you know what I mean? Not in an overarching way, but I’m like, I don’t know if that, you know, that’s a longer process to like move through, I think, but. I totally get this. How did you know you wanted to go on a date? I knew I wanted to go on a date because, okay, so did ask my question. What sets your heart on fire? Which is my favorite one. Love. Yes. Her response.

back. It was so weird because the first time right remember development. So I told you like the first time it was so good still this one was like ping, ping, ping of like all the things that I had on my list. I’m not kidding. Wow. Okay. So anyway, and just how like her intention I was like, you know what, I’m gonna like step into this. I’m gonna see I’m still like not sure if I really want to date like seriously, I just want to get back out there. So

I leaned into it and we just messaged a little bit and we talked the next day on the phone. Because I was just like, we’re not messing around at this point. was like, we talked on the phone. We talked for six hours. Oh my God. I know people are like, did you do that? It was so good. It was so, good. We met a couple of days later. Really what happened was there was a connection like of…

similarity of values, of essences, of understanding. She kind of had some of her own story with things, which I’m finding is more and more common. didn’t really, you know, there’s just, everyone has a story of a breakup or an engagement offer, a divorce, and, you know, reducing that shame around it and allowing people just to kind of show up as themselves, how healing that is. So there was just a lot of that. And then for me, I had to get really honest and share with her, like,

I needed things to look a certain way because I was coming out of something and she met me in that. That was it for me. was just like, I need things to go a little slower. Like I need some space to like take care of myself still as I’m navigating this. And then it was allowing this person growing and trusting her to also show up for me over the next year and how I could show up for her as that energy evolved. Cause this was a lot of energy.

Lily @ Date Brazen (38:05.006)

Right, Glimpse are no joke, right? Yes, exhausting. So I didn’t feel like I had full energy to give to a relationship. And I was just trying to be very honest while also being intentional, right? And so because I knew she was special and I knew that this was a long game, this wasn’t a short burn, this was a long game. And so it felt different to me. Thank you more, please, to all of that. I love that. I wonder…

What self trust looks like for you now? Self trust for me now looks like vulnerability. So yeah, it looks like all the spaces where, let’s see, the places where I maybe hid the pain or hadn’t felt it, it came up. It looks like trusting myself enough to trust where I’m letting that be shared or where I’m allowing someone to meet me in that, how I’m tending to it.

Because I think it’s fair that the pain that gets hit on in relationship breakup isn’t just from that relationship, it’s deeper than that. It’s really been a process of knowing that that’s there and the reason that I can feel the love that I feel is truly because I can let myself feel that pain and grief that I have too. That has felt like vulnerability, that has felt like self-trust because it’s like my full self is showing up. I love that, Liz. I echo that in my experience with Chris too.

meeting him, like getting together with him right like soon after a breakup that was significant for me and how complicated that felt at the time. You’re so wise and you have so many tools that have carried you through wholeheartedly. I’m just so honored to bear witness to your story. And I think that there are so many nuggets of wisdom that people post breakup can use from this episode or even who are trying to start dating after a long period of not what have you that

you’ve shared today. So thank you. Honored to hear all of this. Thanks, Lily. Thanks for letting me come on and share. And it’s really an honor to to be able to talk with you like full circle through because it really my dating journey started back in 2020, my real life dating journey, my fully authentic growing dating journey. So it’s been a privilege to be able to track that. So thank you, too. I really appreciate it. It’s so fun to come back here. I not to say that this journey has necessarily always been fun.

Lily @ Date Brazen (40:29.752)

for you, like this is all very difficult, the hard work that you’ve done to care for yourself. And I think that the pieces that we teach in the program now called Main Character Dating sound like they have just grown and evolved with you. So the pieces of like knowing how you want to feel, knowing that essence based preferences, giving yourself permission, knowing what questions to ask, knowing how to tune in with your body, knowing how to give yourself more permission, knowing how to step into your main character energy. It’s like all there and you’ve just like

taking it and run with it and how fun. Yes. So, good. Thank you more, please. Well, thank you for coming and sharing your story, Liz. I’m honored to hear it again. I will say that again and again and again. I mean it. And y’all, if you want to go on this journey of like figuring out what you want, how to ask for it out loud, how to heal authentically and feel your feelings without, you know, making them mean anything about you.

If you want to join us in main character dating, opens in a few freaking days. And my live training where it will open up on that live training is coming up on August 13th. So check the description of this episode to add your name to the wait list or to get yourself into my free live training, how to attract the right partner as a late bloomer. If you feel behind in any way, this is going to support the hell out of you in your love life. thanks, Liz and y’all. I will talk to you next week. Bye.