188. How to glow in the f*cking dark with Tara Schuster
Trigger warning: This episode contains mentions of suicide.
You are worthy. If you need more convincing, this week’s episode is not to miss. Tara Schuster, author of Glow in the F*cking Dark: Simple Practices to Heal Your Soul from Someone Who Learned the Hard Way, joins Lily on the show! In the book and throughout this conversation, Tara shares practical steps to liberate yourself from emotional suffering, heal your past, and own your future.
Tara served as Vice President of Talent and Development at Comedy Central, where she was the executive in charge of critically acclaimed shows such as the Emmy and Peabody Award–winning Key & Peele, the Emmy® Award winning @Midnight (now After Midnight on CBS) amongst many others. Over the last twelve years, Tara has spent her “10,000 hours” on the other side of the couch studying philosophy, therapies, religions, and even memoirs of the adults she admired so that she could find emotional freedom from a neglectful and psychologically abusive childhood.
Lily and Tara get into:
“It’s not magic having a different life. You can’t sit back and wait for it to happen; you have to work for it.”
What inspired Tara to write Glow in the F*cking Dark and its mission: the practice of finding your essential self.
Thoughts and advice for overcoming lack of self-trust and self-criticism
Tara shares her self-compassion party trick!
How Tara got to a place to make decisions rooted in her own best interest, especially in dating
Links:
Pre-order Lily’s upcoming book, Thank You, More Please!
Get Instant Access to Creating a Confident and Joyful-as-fuck Dating Life That Makes the Right Relationship Inevitable
Glow in the F*cking Dark, Tara Schuster
Tara’s website
Tara on Instagram
The Loveland Foundation
Show transcript:
[00:00:00] Lily: Hello, gorgeous friends. Welcome to another episode. I am so pumped to share this episode with Tara Shuster with you. She is the author of Buy Yourself the Fucking Lilies and Glow in the Fucking Dark. If you don't know her, you're going to love her. If you do know her, you're going to love this episode.
[00:00:16] And I can't wait for you to listen. I know you're going to leave so inspired. This is a trigger warning. There is a mention of suicide in this episode. So please take care and, uh, can't wait for you to listen in.
[00:00:33] Hey, I'm Lily Womble, former Top Matchmaker and founder of Date Brazen. After setting up hundreds, I realized that with coaching, women could match themselves better than anyone else ever could. With my unconventional, feminist approach, I've helped women around the world build courageous and self trust filled love lives.
[00:00:48] And now, I'm here to support you. Get ready, because I'm about to show you the exact steps you need to attract a soul quenching partnership. And feel amazing about yourself along the way. This is the date brazen [00:01:00] podcast. Hello, gorgeous friends. Welcome to another episode of the date brazen podcast. You're not ready.
[00:01:04] Maybe you are ready because you hit go on this podcast episode, but you're not ready for the amazingness that we have for you today. I have Tara Schuster with me, the author of the best selling Buy Yourself the Fucking Lilies and the best selling Glow in the Fucking Dark. Buy Yourself the Fucking Lilies just crossed 200, 000 copies sold.
[00:01:23] Is that right, Tara?
[00:01:24] Tara: Yeah, we're at 250, 000. I just found out.
[00:01:27] Lily: Shut up. Yeah. Okay, y'all, this is huge. Seriously, the envy of all authors everywhere, Tara, not just because of the sales, but I think your readers, like, feel you and feel like they're friends with you and also glean so much wisdom from these books that you've written.
[00:01:47] Previously, if you don't know, if you're a listener, Tara served as VP of talent and development of Comedy Central, where she was the executive in charge of critically acclaimed shows such as Emmy and Peabody award winning Key and Peele. Maybe [00:02:00] you've heard of it. The Emmy award winning at midnight amongst so many others.
[00:02:05] And she has spent her 10, 000 hours on the other side of the couch, studying philosophy, therapies, religions, memoirs of adults she admired so much so that she could find freedom from neglectful and psychologically abusive childhood. Just really. I learned about her growing up in reading by yourself, the fucking lilies.
[00:02:24] And if you've read it, you know, she really allows herself to be seen in this really powerful way and has reclaimed her story in this really powerful way. In January of 2024, Tara released the paperback edition of her highly anticipated second book. Glow in the fucking dark, simple practices to heal your soul from someone who learned the hard way.
[00:02:45] And it's a relatable, easy to follow guide to healing your deepest soul wounds, getting off your good enough plateau, developing habits that'll give you lasting courage and resolve, and creating the spectacular life that you actually want. Tara, get in here.
[00:02:59] Tara: [00:03:00] Wow. Thank you. You want to do the intro, like wherever I go, like my life intro, I would really appreciate that.
[00:03:06] Absolutely.
[00:03:08] Lily: I would be happy. I'm so excited that you're on the podcast. I, as I shared before we hit record, I've been inspired by you for so long as a human, as an author. And, uh, I sent you, I shot my shot y'all. I sent you a DM and truly was prepared for no response. It was just like, I'm going to shoot my shot.
[00:03:27] And I'm so grateful that you responded. I'm so glad you're here.
[00:03:31] Tara: Yeah, I'm so glad I'm here too. And it was for sure Kismet because my agent, actually, we were talking about who are interesting people doing stuff in this similar space who share my philosophy of non snake oiliness. She actually was like date raisin.
[00:03:50] And so when you DM'd me, it was like the universe had set it up and then I had started following your work and learning more about you and seeing [00:04:00] like, you know, but before you hit record, we were talking about how though we're in different domains, I'm in self care, mental health, you're in dating. A lot of our principles are the same.
[00:04:09] And apply to either one. So I'm just as thrilled to be here and and to get to have a real conversation with you. Like I want to dig in. Let's go there. Amazing. Let's go
[00:04:20] Lily: there because glow goes there glow in the fucking dark again just came out on paperback in January of 2024. I want to start with like what inspired you to write this second book you wrote by yourself the fucking lilies you really contributed to this self love revolution and this Prior self prioritization revolution, I think, and gave so many thousands of people specifically women permission to prioritize themselves.
[00:04:49] What inspired glow? When did you know you had to write this book?
[00:04:52] Tara: I'll step back one step, which is if you haven't read lilies just a little bit about like, why even am I here at [00:05:00] all? So you mentioned I grew up in a neglectful, psychologically abusive house where things came to die. Yeah, all the pets. Like the plants.
[00:05:09] I mean, it was, it was an open construction site for five years. There was constant screaming, constant money, stress, threats of divorce, repossessions, foreclosures. It was unfun. It was a mess wreck disaster of unfun circumstances because my parents, they did not know, nor have the capacity to learn how to take care of children.
[00:05:33] And so I exited my childhood believing I was worthless. Because when you're a kid, you're trying to make sense of the world that you're living in. And the world that was reflected to me was that I wasn't worth taking care of. And as a child, you try to control it. So what's wrong? There's something wrong with me.
[00:05:52] There's nothing wrong with these adults because they protect my life. There's something wrong with me. And so I exited my childhood thinking I was [00:06:00] totally worthless. Hustling for my worth. So, you know, in high school, this means every AP I'm going to an Ivy league college. I'm crying at night cause I'm studying so hard, but I'm going to go to an Ivy league college and it's going to save my life.
[00:06:14] And then I get to the Ivy league college and of course it doesn't save my life. It's cool, but now I just have tons of debt. So that like, wasn't a winning, that didn't save me. Oh, what will save me? Maybe weed and alcohol and external achievement, you know, like maybe those things will blunt numb me and then I'll get a fancy job and so I got the fanciest job imaginable for me.
[00:06:39] I was one of the youngest executives ever at comedy central. I started as an intern at the daily show with Jon Stewart, which I'm so excited he's back. I worked my way up until I was the executive in charge of shows like Key and Peele or David Spade had a show on the network. What people did not know was that I [00:07:00] was imploding on the inside, right?
[00:07:02] I was using that weed, alcohol, and bad decisions with boys to blunt numb, distract myself from that childhood. And I might've kept going that way. Had I not hit rock bottom, my 25th birthday, woke up, realized I had drunk dialed my therapist and threatened to hurt myself.
[00:07:24] Lily: This moment in the book truly like took my breath away.
[00:07:27] I was very like, what a, an interesting moment. I know this, this was some those years ago now, but reading it was just like, Oh my God, that you didn't remember that you had called for help was so intense.
[00:07:44] Tara: Yeah. Yeah. And, um, it is a special kind of shock and shame in that moment because you realize, or at least I realized, I don't want to be the kind of person who's so out of control that she's drunk dialing her therapist and [00:08:00] can't remember, you know, just cannot remember.
[00:08:04] And so that morning I decided, um, I have no mentors. People who talk about mentors. I do not relate. I didn't have any wise adults. I couldn't talk to my parents. I knew it was on me. And so I had the skill set of achievement. And I just thought I'm going to attack this like a work project. I'm going to start a Google document.
[00:08:26] All the questions I have, you know, what are values? What are principles? What are vegetables? Like genuinely what are a, I still don't really know. I feel like one day we're told like quinoa is a super food. And the next it's like, no, it's toxic. Don't eat it. It's a rollercoaster of emotion with what we're supposed to be eating.
[00:08:46] And so I did this Google doc for five years. At the end of five years, I had a 600 page Google doc, and I felt like a different person. I felt like I had reparented [00:09:00] myself and far from wanting, you know, I wanted to die at the beginning. I mean, it is what it is. I did not want to take responsibility for my, my life.
[00:09:09] I just didn't want to suffer anymore. And at the end of five years. I felt like I just wanted to run into my life. Like I wanted to live it. I wanted to engage. And it had come such a long way that I realized, Oh, I have an offering. I have something to give because the plan was never, Oh, I'm going to be a self help author.
[00:09:29] That like. Well, it was not on the radar. Well,
[00:09:32] Lily: you didn't even, I mean, journaling was specifically tricky. I know for you because of your upbringing, but like you were starting messily with journaling, even like writing it. I loved how messy you allowed yourself to be in the process of figuring this shit out.
[00:09:52] Tara: Yeah. The whole thing was a clusterfuck. I mean, like, you know, I write it and so now it's an essay form, but at the [00:10:00] time I was just stumbling and cynical. Someone said this very privileged, I'm privileged, this very privileged, beautiful, blonde, Harvard graduate, professional ballerina turned doctor, you know, sees me having anxiety attack and is like, have you heard of a gratitude practice?
[00:10:22] You know, a gratitude practice, you know, helps you reframe your life. And I'm like, have you heard of fuck you? Because you don't understand maybe already well off people who had good childhoods, maybe they have something to be grateful for. I have nothing to be grateful for. I've like pulled myself up from a dark ditch, but of course I started.
[00:10:49] Doing a gratitude practice and it really did change my whole world view. And so any tool I discuss in either of the books, [00:11:00] I came to from a place of deep cynicism and spite. I'm actually not that open. I'm way more open now because I've just done this so much. I've tried so many things, but that's not like how I started.
[00:11:14] It was just. I'm desperate. This is urgent. Let me start. I'll start anything because I just want to live. So for sure it was a messy, messy process. And I try to show that in the book that nothing happened overnight, but that everything's possible. Wherever you are in your life, if you are miserable and think your life can't change, if you think that negative self chatter is never going to quiet down, if you think you're too old at 25, I thought I was too old to be professionally successful.
[00:11:47] And to lead a life that was joyful. I thought it was too late. It was over for me. If any of those things resonate now, what I know is it's not magic to have a different life. It's [00:12:00] noticing being aware, like first step self awareness. Second, it's just work, all of this stuff. It's just work. We can all do work.
[00:12:09] We can all have the lives we want. But again, it's not, you can't sit back and wait for it. You really do have to make an effort. And I know that the original question was what inspired you to write glow? And then I went on this whole other journey. I needed it. I didn't know
[00:12:25] Lily: I needed it. I needed it.
[00:12:26] Tara: But just to fill people in on like.
[00:12:29] You know why it is I'm even here and what inspired me to write glow quite simply is that job that I had affixed all of my meaning to all of my status. It was a way to prove I'm not a weirdo who had a weird childhood. I made it, you know, it was just a total status symbol for me. I was laid off.
[00:12:51] Unceremoniously, I'd worked there 12 years, unlike most people, you know, people had been, all my friends had been going from job to job to job, I was like, a [00:13:00] loyal 1950s company man. That's how I was at Comedy Central. Laid me off. Not, no, like talk about it. Identity lost. I was just completely lost. I was in way better mental health than I had ever been, but I realized that all of my self worth was still tied to external validation.
[00:13:22] And now I know that is so not true. Now I know that the source of my self worth comes from within and I We hear that over and over and over again, right? The journey is the destination. The process is the reward. And we're like, yeah, yeah, cool. But give me my reward. And through this book, I'm really trying to give practical tools to discover your real identity.
[00:13:50] Even people who don't trust themselves anymore, which is many, they think they've been through too much. They can't trust themselves anymore. They're not enough. They're [00:14:00] unlovable. And nobody cares about them, all these negative beliefs. And what I hope to do is glow is hold your hand and walk you back to that.
[00:14:10] You know, we, I talk a lot about stardust, which is a whole other story, but basically we are all made of stardust. It's not something I'm going to crochet for you on a blanket, you know, and sell on Etsy, it's science, the carbon in your muscles, the iron in your bones. All come from stardust. And so whenever I get lost and I think, ah, I'm unworthy, I truly, truly come back to are the stars unworthy?
[00:14:40] Are the stars bad because they didn't finish their to do list? Yeah. No, nobody's gossiping about the stars. Nobody says the stars suck. Therefore in my innermost self, I must not suck. And it's so it's a practice. So glow is all about the practice of finding [00:15:00] your essential self and letting that glow and light up everyone else, you know, because it's when you feel good and when you're lit up, you're lighting the way for others.
[00:15:12] You're making it possible for others. You're just a better community member. in general. So self care is always community care. Yeah.
[00:15:21] Lily: When you
[00:15:21] Tara: look at it like that.
[00:15:22] Lily: And so many thoughts after that. And so many places my brain wants to go, but I'll choose one, which is, I love how in your chapters, you lay out your personal journey with each of these topics.
[00:15:36] I mean, you talk about your love life, you talk about your work life, you talk about self trust, you talk about these things and you always give The concrete 1, 2, 3, 4. I just love that you are really laying it out from your experience and your lived experience. I'm curious. Let's go to the people who don't trust themselves.
[00:15:59] [00:16:00] Specifically after, you know, the folks listening to this podcast are single, badass, feminist, amazing human beings. I share the story a lot of my toxic situationship ex that I was with for a long time. When I look back as the me that I am now, if I'm being critical of that version of myself, I'm like, who is she?
[00:16:22] You know, like, Oh, why did she write? And the compassionate version of me, like knows why I was with him knows why I put up with so little for so long. But I remember after that relationship, I really, and in it as well, I felt this like despair. In a way that I literally could not trust myself. I can't trust what I want.
[00:16:43] I can't trust my personality. I can't, it drives people away. I've got to change it. I've got it right. And all of these stories were leading to this like deep anxiety and shame. I'm curious, because you've been in similar places, how would you suggest [00:17:00] someone start building self trust after a relationship like that?
[00:17:03] Or after choices that now feel like, what was I doing to myself? How could I trust myself after making those choices? Like, tell us more.
[00:17:11] Tara: Yeah, there are many different answers to this question, particularly at what stage you're in of your own growth. But if I were to start There are many answers to this question.
[00:17:23] It just sort of depends where you are in your journey. So I think there are many answers to this question, and it really just depends where you are on, on your own self growth journey. What I know now is because we are made of stardust, that's at your core. So we use words like I need to fix my life.
[00:17:43] Everything's a mess. And I'm not against saying there's some people say, Oh, you shouldn't say that because you don't really have to fix you. Like, you are enough. You're already great. But they don't back it up with why? And if you don't believe those words, it's toxic positivity. It's just an affirmation [00:18:00] that means nothing.
[00:18:01] Cool. Me writing, I am enough. If I don't even have an inkling of that being true is not going to work. So pegging, you know, your self worth is something real. If this works for you, you are made of stardust. That is true. That's at your core. That's an immutable scientific fact that can never be taken away from you.
[00:18:22] Ever. So I hang on to something like that because at the end of the day, the reason that any of us have self worth, the reason any of us deserve anything is simply because we were born nothing else. It's because you're a participant in this planet. You are worthy. It's not your job. It's not how you treat your children.
[00:18:45] It's not how you treat your best friend. It's not. Are you in a relationship or are you not? It is. The fundamental is just you were born if you were born, then you are worthy and getting to that core. How do we [00:19:00] believe that? So one is just the science of it. If you can believe that, and if you can hold that, you're in great shape.
[00:19:07] If you need a little more convincing, what I do is I, so I call all that negative self chatter, the frenemy within. And at this point in my journey, I would be saying, I would be using language more about compassion, like accepting and allowing. But I do think that for some of us who no one's ever defended, no one's ever taken care of, it actually makes sense to be a little adversarial, which is like kind of a hot take.
[00:19:35] But in our genre, there's all these writers about self compassion. And the first thing is you can't reject your way into self acceptance. That's true. And if you've been in the gutter, Of self esteem and nobody's ever stood up for you. We need to practice standing up for ourselves. So a couple of things I would do is I would write an inventory of all of your negative self beliefs.
[00:19:58] My greatest hits are I'm [00:20:00] unlovable. Nobody cares about me. I'll never find love if I'm not professionally successful. Now I'll never be. It's too old. I'm too late, etc. I would write that inventory. I would then on a sheet of paper, write three columns, fact, fiction, and what else might be true, which I know is the question you ask.
[00:20:20] So in the fiction column, I would list all of your negative beliefs because they're just beliefs. They're not true. Like that's a big thing to realize. Like you might believe you suck. What's the truth? Yeah. Like what is the actual truth here? And for me, it's been very freeing that I don't have to believe my beliefs.
[00:20:40] So we write down the fictions and then we question them with words like, is that true all the time? Yeah. Is it an absolute, like I suck. Okay. Do I suck all of the time? Am I unworthy all of the time? If I can just find a little in of like, well, no, I was actually. Pretty [00:21:00] cool when I showed up, uh, you know, at my sister's wedding and did X, Y, Z, so I don't suck all of the time, right?
[00:21:07] So we have our fictions, finding our facts. And then we ask, and what else might be true? Like just a bigger truth. I don't love the word positive affirmation because it just makes me gag from the outset. I'm just like, what do you use? I'm toying with it right now. It's just true. Yeah. Which like, it's just a true statement would be something like, uh, if we're using, I am not enough, right?
[00:21:34] So I am not enough is the fiction. The fact is. Actually, I show up a lot of the time as a kind, compassionate person. Not all the time, but some of the time. What else might be true? I am willing to move in the direction of understanding that I am enough. I am on the path to [00:22:00] figuring this out. You want something that you can believe, and then that, Because of neuroplasticity, the idea that we can rewire our brains, which here's a fun fact, we have 70, 000 thoughts a day, 80 percent of those thoughts are negative and 95 percent of all of our thoughts are repetitive.
[00:22:23] So straight up awful. 70, 000 thoughts. 80 percent are negative. And then 95 percent are a thought loop. So in our brains, we're just ingrained with this, with this negative self chatter. So it takes a lot of practice, a lot of repetition of really teasing out what these negative beliefs are, fact checking them.
[00:22:46] Is this true? And what else might be true and what else might be true as you move on? That is for me, fundamental. Particularly for people like me [00:23:00] who had been treated so poorly, you know, and then I think you get to a level of, you know, the Vietnamese Zen Buddhist monk Thich Nhat Hanh, he has a practice where you put a hand over your heart.
[00:23:12] It would say you're feeling unworthy. I notice my unworthiness and I take good care of my unworthiness. It's the accepting and allowing and not pushing these things away, but I think it's almost impossible. And again, this is very contrarian. I don't think it's really that realistic for most of us to start with self compassion, honestly, because it's such a hard, like, if you could.
[00:23:40] Amazing. Great. It's the obvious answer is we all need self compassion. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And it's a hard concept to come to if you've spent decades hating yourself and step one for me, I think is just. Untangling [00:24:00] these things and then we can move into a self compassion practice and there's a type of therapy called internal family systems, which is the only way I've ever felt self compassion.
[00:24:12] And I, I actually collaborated with the founder, Dr Richard Schwartz on a worksheet. I call it my self compassion party trick. I can trick you into feeling compassionately for yourself. How, how can you do that? Tell me more. Yeah. So we've teased out. Now we have an inventory and we're aware of all this negative self chatter, right?
[00:24:34] What you have to now know. So this is step two of this journey, right? So that took me many years. The next step is accepting and allowing that these things exist. So what internal family system says, and if I'm getting like way too into the weeds, tell me, but come on, no, no, no. Come on. Okay. So internal family system says we have many parts within us,
[00:24:57] Lily: right?
[00:24:58] Tara: And if you've ever said something [00:25:00] like, I feel this way about it, but I also feel that way about it.
[00:25:03] Lily: Yeah. The both and like the multiplicity of. Our human experience and internal family systems also to give context can give you context into your literal family and what the family system has been at play that was the survival system.
[00:25:19] Tara: Yes, exactly. And so if you've ever felt two ways about something, then you know, you have multiple points of view within you. Another great example of what it means of multiple People are parts within you is, you know, I'm showing up differently for you on this podcast than I would with my sister than I would on a date.
[00:25:41] Right. Sure. So the whole idea of authenticity for me is not like any one fixed state. It's an ability to accept and allow that I have all these different ways I show up. Yeah. And am I showing up, am I able to choose the way that I want to [00:26:00] show up? Am I, do I have enough self awareness to do that? So I also have a different take on authenticity, but basically internal family system says each one of those parts is out for your benefit.
[00:26:14] Lily: Yeah. Yeah, every
[00:26:16] Tara: part within you wants to help you, but is probably a coping mechanism for when you were a child and you didn't have many options. Yeah. So let's say I have like a, I have a, within me a little lonely, abandoned girl. And she was alone, you know, like actually abandoned. Uh, my mom actually abandoned me.
[00:26:40] I did not like theoretically she has been left. And so she has every reason in the world. To want to cling to anybody who will show her any affection, by the way, she's touch deprived because as a kid, I wasn't hugged. I wasn't touched. All she wants is physical contact. [00:27:00] And so she, my five year old self will make decisions like.
[00:27:05] Date this emotionally unavailable boy because he's giving you something.
[00:27:10] Lily: Yeah.
[00:27:10] Tara: He's giving you this one thing. He's texting you every day. That must mean he's thinking about you. Nevermind he won't commit to plans and you feel anxious around him and like he doesn't really care. He's giving you that, like stick around.
[00:27:24] And if you wouldn't trust a five year old to tell you how to act, like right now, would you trust a five year old to tell you what to do in dating? No. Right? Hell no. Like I'd trust a five year old to pick out ice cream or like a glittery outfit for me, but not this. And so we have to recognize and allow, oh my god, That part of you has been trying to help you this whole time, trying to get you to find love, you know, Mike, I'm using my very specific example and she's tired, [00:28:00] really hard job and getting in touch with that suffering of what that part feels like, how it feels to be that part, how long that part has been alone without you noticing.
[00:28:11] And by touching into that suffering in that moment, like, even as I'm like reading your face and we're talking about that, when you think about a part of yourself, if the emotion that comes up is sorrow and a wish to help, like, Hmm, I feel really bad for that part. And like, how would I, I just want to do something about it.
[00:28:32] That is self compassion feeling the suffering and being compelled to do something about it. And so I think in that way, It's a really specific practice. If it's at all interesting to you, the worksheet is in glow. I've done it with thousands of people in real life. It works. That is why it is my self compassion party trick.
[00:28:54] Lily: Yeah.
[00:28:54] Tara: But self compassion, just one of those things that you'll listen to a meditation where they say, feel self [00:29:00] compassion. I'm like, really, but how? So that's what I'm trying to help with is, you know, these bigger concepts that actually are. Just because of how we're conditioned, a difficult thing to achieve.
[00:29:12] Lily: I love how you are so honest with, like, what doesn't make sense about the self help language and world and concepts, because I think that so many people, like, when folks say, like, feel your feelings, or, like, therapist is like, feel your feelings, I would be like, how? Yeah. How, how do I do that? I think that that's so simple to ground it in like, Oh, it's that feeling when I think about my younger self who was, you know, labeled as too much and, and was told that her feelings were too big and that she was too sensitive, too bossy, too intense.
[00:29:48] Like that was my narrative and impacted how I dated as well.
[00:29:54] Tara: Exactly. And, and you might not even realize that you've felt self compassion before, because we [00:30:00] have so rarely felt it and it hasn't really been called out, but exactly as you talk about it, if you are able to tap into the suffering of that little girl and what it felt like to be told she was not enough, how that felt over time, how it felt in her body.
[00:30:14] If you can feel that. And the natural inclination to be like, I want to help that part of me. That sounds awful. Hang on to that feeling, sit in it because that is self compassion. And that's the feeling we want to grow. And it feels counterintuitive because I'm asking you to step into your suffering. I'm saying, Go into that hard place, conjured in your body, feel your suffering.
[00:30:41] And that's going to be where you actually feel the most self love possible.
[00:30:45] Lily: I think what I'm noticing, cause I talk about this stuff a lot too, and I'm just like feeling so excited by this new way in that you're offering. Yeah. I'm thinking about like, okay, why might that be a response to this invitation?
[00:30:59] Be like, [00:31:00] absolutely not. Never. Don't want to go into that suffering. I think it's because of this knowledge that we can't fix it for her.
[00:31:08] Tara: Mm hmm.
[00:31:09] Lily: Right. Like I can't fix my child and you can't fix it happened. It's never going to not have happened. And what a bummer. And I think it's also why people avoid acknowledging their feelings because they're afraid it's going to last forever.
[00:31:26] Yeah. Overwhelm them. Overwhelm them. It's never going to go away. They're going to be swimming in the shame or the hopelessness forever if they acknowledge it. So like, might as well just push past it. That's how you get over it is just pushing past. It was just prolongs it. But
[00:31:38] Tara: yeah,
[00:31:39] Lily: what would you say to somebody who responded to this?
[00:31:41] Like, they're like, okay, great. Tara, like, great. Cool. Cool story. But yeah, if I go into that room with that younger version of myself, I'm afraid of. Yeah. Yes. Feeling that way forever with her.
[00:31:55] Tara: Yes. And I would say that is a completely reasonable fear, [00:32:00] except it's already true. You're already swimming in all of her shame and fear and problems.
[00:32:08] And you're in the worst possible position because you don't have agency. It's there. It's not going away. You cannot push something down. Then the more you push something down, the louder and louder it gets. And it starts to come out in other weird behaviors. So there's no reason to be afraid of the truth because you're already living in the truth.
[00:32:32] You are already swimming in all of those awful feelings and all of those things that you're afraid of. So the wise thing to do is if you're already living in it is to recognize I've already survived the worst things that ever happened to me. I did survive that. I actually am strong. I actually showing up here today to even be able to question this.
[00:32:56] And from that point, you work on it. And I would also [00:33:00] say, you work on it wisely. So, when I'm giving a workshop last night, I gave a workshop on how do we disarm the front of me within and when I'm asking people to choose 3 negative core beliefs, I always say, please do not choose the most traumatic triggering.
[00:33:17] Awful thing. To work with, because most of us have basically bullied our way through our lives. We've just pushed everything down to get ahead, to make it somewhere, to live a life. And that strategy doesn't work in healing. And that's where I come back to that you can't. Reject yourself into self acceptance, and that's why this is sort of like a little bit of a level two.
[00:33:44] But if you need to hang on to like a life raft here, it is that you're already living this way, right? You just have less power. And why not just try something different? Because if this was working for you, if this was an awesome strategy. You wouldn't be [00:34:00] questioning any of this. Yeah,
[00:34:01] Lily: a hundred
[00:34:02] Tara: percent.
[00:34:02] And I would say like, and if it really is overwhelming, the wise thing to do is to get a therapist. If you can't get a therapist, talk to friends about it. I can recommend books that are really good in this area. There is help. There really is. And you don't have to do it alone.
[00:34:17] Lily: Yeah. And speaking on therapy and making it work, there are resources like the Loveland Foundation for Black women and girls and non binary humans who are like offering resources.
[00:34:28] And there's other similar foundations that are subsidizing folks to get therapy, especially if you hold a marginalized or several marginalized identities. So I really love therapy and I know that coaching helps me to make. All of that reflective work more actionable for myself.
[00:34:47] Tara: Yeah.
[00:34:48] Lily: And that's why I love your book because I think it's like actively coaching people through this in a very relatable.
[00:34:53] Yeah. Relatable way. And, uh, I want to get into, you know, your dating life and you write a [00:35:00] chapter about it. And I highlighted a passage that I'd love to read back to you from your own book. Okay, where do I begin? Because it's like all of it is so good. I don't wanna date again until I'm sure I can make decisions that are in my own best interest.
[00:35:15] Hmm. How did you get to a place where you could make decisions that were rooted in your own best interest? What did that look like for you?
[00:35:22] Tara: This is gonna sound sadder than I it to, but. I really had to feel pain, like my own suffering about how these choices had made me feel. And even, you know, and it's a practice.
[00:35:38] A big thing about my books is I'm not perfect. I'm not a mental health professional. I'm just another person on the road. And I might just be three steps ahead of you. So I can be like, Hey, yo, I've got some water. I've got some snacks, right? Why don't you try this out? Right? So for me, One of my kind of final frontiers, although it's always [00:36:00] changing is romance, and I have had to time and time again, I'll just talk straight up about a relationship I was just in to kind of illustrate this.
[00:36:10] I was just dating somebody who. Tall, handsome. Went to the right college. So funny. The way he put on his sunglasses. I was just like, Oh my God, you're so hot. Oh, he's going to be what safety means, right? Which is complete BS. We don't know anything about him, but for me, having grown up in such an unstable house, it's understandable that safety status, right?
[00:36:35] Those are my kryptonite. Lead me to do things that are not in my best self interest. So dating him, I feel constantly anxious all of the time because he texts me every day, but you know, I'll send him an article and he doesn't read it. He doesn't reply. I'll say, hey, there's a cool play. He'll say, yeah, we should choose dates.
[00:36:58] Never follows [00:37:00] up. We were supposed to have a date. He did shrooms accidentally. And then couldn't make it like he ate something question mark. Yeah. Question mark, whatever. And then tells me, Oh, like the next day you're going to think it's such a funny story. Why I know showed on our date, this stream story.
[00:37:21] I'm like, Oh
[00:37:22] Lily: yeah, no, showed like you showed up and he didn't show up.
[00:37:25] Tara: Not quite as bad. We're supposed to hang out at three and I didn't hear from him until 2 PM, which feels awful. That level of anxiety when I just. Wanted this person to like me and I sat with how terrible that felt that anxiety that suffering And I decided I don't deserve to feel this bad This is not what dating or love is about.
[00:37:52] I don't deserve. I am right now putting myself through this Yes, he sucks, but i'm the one who's like sticking [00:38:00] around so in that moment Claiming my agency and acting differently So instead of continuing the making excuses, she's so hot, I, you know, I want this to work. He's my checklist. I called him and I just said, I am not romantically interested in you.
[00:38:21] Which was a lie. I am not romantically interested in you. This isn't working. This dynamic doesn't work. Maybe one day in the future we can be friends, but my people will call your people when that happens. Like I need to take back the talking stick. And it was a very different choice. And, and why I say the lie part, he had basically explained that he was emotionally shut off, withdrawn.
[00:38:44] And he was very confused about me because he liked me and he wanted to have something with me and he didn't understand why he couldn't. So it was a super mixed mess. He was confused. Yeah. And once he told me that, I realized. Okay, this is an unviable [00:39:00] option. I'm not just going to be somebody's friend waiting for him to do the healing he needs to do to recognize how awesome I am.
[00:39:07] So while I didn't 100 percent believe the words, if he had said to me, I'm going to heal and do all the work because I love you and I want this to work, I would have been like, Oh my God, let's be together. You know? I But, but he didn't. So when I say I lied, there was like a 10 percent bit of hope that I had to just say, okay, hope I love you so much.
[00:39:32] You're not in the driver's seat right now. Me and self energy. I'm in the driver's seat and I need to choose differently and I need to break up with him right now. And then the universe tested me and he, he texted me yet again, even though I asked him not to, and I had to say again, Hey, I'm not romantically interested in you.
[00:39:52] And it was so hard. And then again, he DM'd me and I really had to be like, Hey, I'm not interested in you. Please don't [00:40:00] contact me. I'll get back into contact with you if there's a friendship. But it was like, it's that practice of choosing differently. And sticking to it, because I just have to tell you and to anyone who's listening, there was not one bone in my body that wanted this to be
[00:40:17] Lily: the case.
[00:40:18] You wanted him to be like the sexy, gorgeous human who will come into your life. And like, you'll be able to say for years to come that, you know, yeah,
[00:40:27] Tara: of course. Yes. I wanted that so badly. And By really feeling the pain, that's how I recognized this no longer serves me. Not going to work.
[00:40:39] Lily: What I hear you did is like you trusted your body to like know what was going on.
[00:40:45] Yes, exactly. And then you listened. And then out of the self, I think like, I think of, um, self trust is built in those small decisions that you make that are cumulative and you're just making these small decisions and then that lead to bigger decisions. [00:41:00] And like, yes, I love that you say like the little bit of hope, you know, a lot of folks in the dating world call that like, don't date possibility or whatever.
[00:41:08] But I do think that it's just this like hope for humanity or people or this person to like, Get their shit together. Cause I got my shit together. Like, why couldn't you, you know, like makes total sense.
[00:41:20] Tara: Totally. And there's no reason to shame yourself for dating potential. It's actually so beautiful that you have a hope for somebody else.
[00:41:30] Like, oh my God, that's so nice. And. You're exactly right. I felt it in my body. And my takeaway is if I ever feel that feeling again, then it doesn't really matter what the situation is. That's not the relationship for me. I can just trust that. I don't need to think about it, intellectualize it. Oh, maybe he'll be better.
[00:41:51] It's just like, no, if I'm that level of anxious. This is not for me. I gotta move on.
[00:41:55] Lily: A hundred percent. I do think that there is a distinction [00:42:00] that I, I talk about this in my book, but the distinction between feeling anxious about, Oh my God, this is so different. So good. I've never received this kind of love and support before.
[00:42:12] I don't know what this is like. Am I going to screw this up? Am I going to say the wrong thing, which is something that is good versus the anxiety of. What do they think about me? Is this okay? Am I safe? Is it going to work out? Are they going to change? Do I need them to change? What is, do I just need to settle?
[00:42:25] Right? Like, what do you think that
[00:42:26] Tara: line is for yourself? Well, I would say that the word anxiety is probably not exactly right. And that if we dug under it, what it really would be is if it's something new and you just haven't felt it, nervous, vulnerable, feeling a little fragile, feeling excited. I actually, a big thing I talk about is emotion wheels because I used to think my only emotions were bad, sad, tired, hungry, busy.
[00:42:54] So in glow, I have my own emotion wheel that people can use to do exactly this. And [00:43:00] this actually proves why an emotional is so important because is it that you're actually feeling anxious, right? Or is it something else? Because if it's something else, you can act in a different way and you have a lot more agency.
[00:43:11] So if you realize, Oh, this is just new and I'm nervous and I'm exposed. You can help yourself. It's okay, sweetheart. You're trying something new. Good for you. You can build up some confidence. This is normal to feel this way. This is totally normal. It makes sense why I would feel this way. It's like anything the first day of school.
[00:43:32] You don't know. It's new territory. You can really build yourself up that way. You can talk to a friend about it. You can say, Hey, I'm in this new relationship and I've never had it like this good, which makes me really nervous. Can you back me up? You'd feel that way too, right? That's a whole different line of actions than if you look under it and it's fear, fear of rejection, fear of scarcity, fear that if you don't take this guy now, there won't be any guy in [00:44:00] the future.
[00:44:01] And that's what it was for me. The anxiety was not, this is so great. This is so new. The anxiety was, Oh my God, he's amazing. I need to like scoop him up and make this work. He's rare. I want too much. I've really like had to take what you say. Um, I'm for the few, not the many. I've had to take that to heart.
[00:44:22] You know, that like, that's okay. He's not for me. But in that moment, it really was, fear that was leading that quote unquote anxiety. So I, I'd always say like dig underneath and see what's under that.
[00:44:37] Lily: So good. I think just for the feelings wheel alone and for the, the worksheet on self compassion alone, like this book, We all need this book.
[00:44:46] I have it in my hands right now, but, um, I really encourage you to go to the description of this episode and buy the paperback, um, version of glow in the fucking dark. I want to end with this, um, passage on page 264 [00:45:00] about your love life and how you like to think of it now. This is now how I like to think of love, not as one person merging into another, but as But as two stars who have been through their own pressures triumphs coming together to shine side by side, no matter how long it takes to get there, each giving light to the other.
[00:45:17] And then to us all, I'm looking for my blue star. Obviously I'm gold. I know you're out there and I can't wait to shine with you. Thank you so beautiful. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us. And I I'm just so excited for you and excited to see you shining and glowing and where can people find you and work with you even, um, outside of the book.
[00:45:44] Tara: The best way is to sign up for my newsletter, which if you go to Tara Schuster. com slash newsletter, or just Google Tara Schuster newsletter. Uh, it's a weekly newsletter called A Little Thing That Helps. And I just give you a little thing that helps. Um, but that's where I [00:46:00] post, you know, I do workshops. I have a mastermind.
[00:46:03] I'm always speaking somewhere and I love meeting people. To the chagrin of every bookstore who's like, dude, we need to go home. And I'm like, wait a minute. I just want to write a passage to Liza. I want to meet up. Um, and then I'm on Instagram where I do basically the same, just Tara Schuster. Thanks,
[00:46:24] Lily: Tara.
[00:46:24] We'll link all
[00:46:24] Tara: that
[00:46:25] Lily: in the description and in the show notes as well. Um, uh, go by glow in the fucking dark and, uh, I will talk to all of you next week. Thanks, Tara. Thanks for having [00:47:00] me.